Blind stealing basics: when you are called

[Mizzles]

I'm somewhat new to no limit (been a limit player for 15 yrs). All I have to say is now I find limit to be extremely boring now and don't know if I'll ever go back....

"once you go black you don't go back"
"once you go asian you never go caucasian"
"once you go no-limit you never go limit" ?? LOL

Anyway here's the hand in question... Help / advice to this no-limit newbie is greatly appreciated.

I was in a multitable tourny yesterday, bubble approaching, blinds 1000 / 2000, just got moved to this table so I have no table image and everyone is an unknown.

8 players. On the button w/ about 27,000 in chips, everyone folded to me, I raised w/ 97o to about 6000. Both blinds have about 80,000 in front of them.

1) Do you steal here? Does their large stack size make it less of an option? Hand too weak?

BB calls. Flop comes Q9x rainbow. Check to me.

2) Do I bet here? (A check-raise would be a disaster). I have mid pair w/ no kicker. So I bet 10,000 into a ~13,000 pot.

3) Did I bet too much?

BB check-raises all in. Now what? He's likely got AQ, KQ, or slow playing an overpair, doubt this is a complete bluff. Fold leaves me w/ 11,000 in chips.

4) Fold or call and why?

Any advice is appreciated!

[chopchoi]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm somewhat new to no limit (been a limit player for 15 yrs). All I have to say is now I find limit to be extremely boring now and don't know if I'll ever go back....

"once you go black you don't go back"
"once you go asian you never go caucasian"
"once you go no-limit you never go limit" ?? LOL

Anyway here's the hand in question... Help / advice to this no-limit newbie is greatly appreciated.

I was in a multitable tourny yesterday, bubble approaching, blinds 1000 / 2000, just got moved to this table so I have no table image and everyone is an unknown.

8 players. On the button w/ about 27,000 in chips, everyone folded to me, I raised w/ 97o to about 6000. Both blinds have about 80,000 in front of them.

1) Do you steal here? Does their large stack size make it less of an option? Hand too weak?

BB calls. Flop comes Q9x rainbow. Check to me.

2) Do I bet here? (A check-raise would be a disaster). I have mid pair w/ no kicker. So I bet 10,000 into a ~13,000 pot.

3) Did I bet too much?

BB check-raises all in. Now what? He's likely got AQ, KQ, or slow playing an overpair, doubt this is a complete bluff. Fold leaves me w/ 11,000 in chips.

4) Fold or call and why?

Any advice is appreciated!

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1) wouldn't steal against a big stack here. you're new to the table and have no reads. wait a round and see what type of players you're up against before you go make a move.

2) you have to bet. you're probably ahead.

3)not sure. ordinarily, I'd say bet 8 or 9 thousand, but you're obligated to call if he plays back, so maybe you should just push.

4) call and hope to catch one of your 5 outs. You're getting about 4:1, which is a little less than the odds you would ordinarily need, but if you fold, you're going to be dangerously short-stacked.

[BoneCollector]

Hello, I'm the opposite of you, been playing nl for 3 yrs now, and been trying to expand to limit over the past 6 mo.

Anyways, to answer your questions (and it wouldve been helpful to know average stack size, I'm assuming you are slightly short):

1) Putting 20-25% of your stack into a steal against 2 much larger stacks here is a bad idea both because of your hand quality, and the lack of table image. If you are new to the table, the fold here is a quick way to show a tight image, helping steal sucess on next round.

2) You have to bet, a check is both weak and an overcard is coming a majority of the time.

3) A standard continuation bet of about half the pot would be good here. You are laying him incorrect odds for a draw (j10) and think this amount will leave you with a short stack still, but you often can get the same result (good or bad) with less risk.

4) AQ is less likely because you prob wouldve seen a reraise preflop. KQ, QJ, Q10 are all very likley. With the amount you bet on the flop and your stack, he pushed you in expecting a call. Assuming a 9 or 7 will win it, you are getting about 4.5:1 on a little better than a 3:1 shot.

Unfortunatly, this isn't a no-brainer call like limit cause out is out. If you don't call you are playing all-in poker. I would call and hope for the best.

[PennDisc]

[ QUOTE ]

BB check-raises all in. Now what? He's likely got AQ, KQ, or slow playing an overpair, doubt this is a complete bluff. Fold leaves me w/ 11,000 in chips.


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Why are you so sure he's not on a complete bluff? It is more likely though, is that he has a pair or a draw. JT is not an unlikely hand - he has at least 8 outs and probably more if you have a pair less than top pair. Plus, you may not want to call with the hands he considers most likely for you (Ax, Kx).

[yoadrians]

There's nothing wrong with being aggressive, but I like to pick my spots better. And when I do tangle with the big stacks, I prefer to have the goods.

I don't blind steal here - like a previous poster said, wait an orbit or two and see how the table is playing.

And, btw, there's nothing wrong with check-folding a blind-steal gone bad, either. Having middle pair here with a mid- to weak- kicker makes it tougher - lead out for a third of the pot, and be prepared to fold to a re-raise. Weak, maybe, but you live to fight another day and, hopefully, with much better holdings.

[Jason Strasser]

The key is to have a plan. Dont play the hand so that you are completely clueless as to what to do when you get raised.

Assuming no antes, I would steal for much less here (5k), or just go all in preflop. If you decide to fire the flop, you probably can't fold. I quite often will raise preflop smaller, or just go all in preflop. With the pot that big, I can't see giving up so I'd make a nice pot comitting bet on the flop and go broke. You'll take it down often enough, and your still drawing live if you're behind.

To the poster who said "dont steal without reads", bullcrap. What's he gonna do with 13bb? Wait for aces?

That being said, you have a very awkward stack size and if players are going to call preflop (which is pretty awful unless they have no intentions of folding), you might really simplify things by going all in preflop.

-Jason