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View Full Version : Stop trying to point out contradictions in religion!


drudman
06-27-2005, 01:15 PM
Just stop.

This is a Science, Math, and Philosophy forum. Religion has no literal relation to any of the three.

And also, pointing out that the Earth seems to be much older than the Bible says, or pointing out that it makes no sense to pray to a perfect God is not going to convince any theists to abandon their metaphysical beliefs.

That is all.

vulturesrow
06-27-2005, 04:29 PM
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This is a Science, Math, and Philosophy forum. Religion has no literal relation to any of the three.

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Religion has a huge role in Philosophy. Your statement is ludicrous.

jason_t
06-27-2005, 06:19 PM
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This is a Science, Math, and Philosophy forum. Religion has no literal relation to any of the three.

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Religion has a huge role in Philosophy. Your statement is ludicrous.

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Religion has no role in analytical philosophy; I imagine that is what the OP intended.

drudman
06-27-2005, 06:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
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This is a Science, Math, and Philosophy forum. Religion has no literal relation to any of the three.

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Religion has a huge role in Philosophy. Your statement is ludicrous.

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Religion has no role in analytical philosophy; I imagine that is what the OP intended.

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Yes.

Many things are called philosophy. Most of them are nonsense.

David Sklansky
06-27-2005, 07:38 PM
I agree. But the subject is homeless and will remain so.

Aytumious
06-27-2005, 07:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
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This is a Science, Math, and Philosophy forum. Religion has no literal relation to any of the three.

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Religion has a huge role in Philosophy. Your statement is ludicrous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Religion has no role in analytical philosophy; I imagine that is what the OP intended.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

Many things are called philosophy. Most of them are nonsense.

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Enlighten me as to what is philosophy. I have a BA in philosophy and want to make sure my degree is at least relevent in its own field.

Prevaricator
06-27-2005, 08:02 PM
Religion is a subset of Philosophy at the very least.

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And also, pointing out that the Earth seems to be much older than the Bible says, or pointing out that it makes no sense to pray to a perfect God is not going to convince any theists to abandon their metaphysical beliefs

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Good point though.

drudman
06-27-2005, 08:24 PM
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This is a Science, Math, and Philosophy forum. Religion has no literal relation to any of the three.

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Religion has a huge role in Philosophy. Your statement is ludicrous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Religion has no role in analytical philosophy; I imagine that is what the OP intended.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

Many things are called philosophy. Most of them are nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Enlighten me as to what is philosophy. I have a BA in philosophy and want to make sure my degree is at least relevent in its own field.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like Prevaricator said, analytic philosophy is real philosophy.

drudman
06-27-2005, 08:29 PM
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Religion is a subset of Philosophy at the very least.

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How do you figure? "Theology" is not an academic field.

Religion has traditionally been called philosophy, but erroneously. Real philosophy does not concern itself with meaningless metaphysical topics.

Prevaricator
06-27-2005, 08:30 PM
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This is a Science, Math, and Philosophy forum. Religion has no literal relation to any of the three.

[/ QUOTE ]

Religion has a huge role in Philosophy. Your statement is ludicrous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Religion has no role in analytical philosophy; I imagine that is what the OP intended.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

Many things are called philosophy. Most of them are nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Enlighten me as to what is philosophy. I have a BA in philosophy and want to make sure my degree is at least relevent in its own field.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like Prevaricator said, analytic philosophy is real philosophy.

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Did I say this? I agree with it but I don't remember saying it.

Prevaricator
06-27-2005, 08:33 PM
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Religion is a subset of Philosophy at the very least.

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How do you figure? "Theology" is not an academic field.

Religion has traditionally been called philosophy, but erroneously. Real philosophy does not concern itself with meaningless metaphysical topics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but this forum says nothing about "Real" philosophy, which is my point. All the religious stuff has to be dumped into here.

Either that, or the people who post about it should be burned at the stake.

drudman
06-27-2005, 08:35 PM
Religion has no role in analytical philosophy;

Aytumious
06-27-2005, 08:36 PM
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This is a Science, Math, and Philosophy forum. Religion has no literal relation to any of the three.

[/ QUOTE ]

Religion has a huge role in Philosophy. Your statement is ludicrous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Religion has no role in analytical philosophy; I imagine that is what the OP intended.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

Many things are called philosophy. Most of them are nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Enlighten me as to what is philosophy. I have a BA in philosophy and want to make sure my degree is at least relevent in its own field.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like Prevaricator said, analytic philosophy is real philosophy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Such as? Does epistemology count for anything. Was Kant a complete waste of time?

jason_t
06-27-2005, 08:46 PM
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Religion has no role in analytical philosophy;

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That was me and I did mean to imply that the only real philosophy is analytic philosophy.

drudman
06-27-2005, 08:48 PM
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This is a Science, Math, and Philosophy forum. Religion has no literal relation to any of the three.

[/ QUOTE ]

Religion has a huge role in Philosophy. Your statement is ludicrous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Religion has no role in analytical philosophy; I imagine that is what the OP intended.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

Many things are called philosophy. Most of them are nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Enlighten me as to what is philosophy. I have a BA in philosophy and want to make sure my degree is at least relevent in its own field.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like Prevaricator said, analytic philosophy is real philosophy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Such as? Does epistemology count for anything. Was Kant a complete waste of time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Epistemology is a large part of analytic philosophy. Some of what Kant did is meaningful philosophy. Like most people who we call philosophers, some of what he did was not.

Aytumious
06-27-2005, 08:55 PM
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This is a Science, Math, and Philosophy forum. Religion has no literal relation to any of the three.

[/ QUOTE ]

Religion has a huge role in Philosophy. Your statement is ludicrous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Religion has no role in analytical philosophy; I imagine that is what the OP intended.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

Many things are called philosophy. Most of them are nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Enlighten me as to what is philosophy. I have a BA in philosophy and want to make sure my degree is at least relevent in its own field.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like Prevaricator said, analytic philosophy is real philosophy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Such as? Does epistemology count for anything. Was Kant a complete waste of time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Epistemology is a large part of analytic philosophy. Some of what Kant did is meaningful philosophy. Like most people who we call philosophers, some of what he did was not.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about Nietzsche, Hume, Heidegger (yuck), or Hegel (barf).

Actually, I have my degree from a very analytical school, UW-Madison, and I'm always curious what other people consider to be analytical philosophy.

jason_t
06-27-2005, 08:59 PM
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Such as? Does epistemology count for anything. Was Kant a complete waste of time?

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Epistemology is studied in analytic philosophy. Read G.E. Moore's wonderful "Proof of an External World" among many of his other articles for a great peek at the world of epistemology and analytic philosophy.

vulturesrow
06-27-2005, 09:24 PM
So there are lots of philosophy snobs here. Got it. Doesnt mean religion isnt a legitimate topic. His post couldve substituted any number of "proper" philosophical topics in the part where he was talking about people not changing their minds.

Zygote
06-27-2005, 09:28 PM
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Just stop.

This is a Science, Math, and Philosophy forum. Religion has no literal relation to any of the three.

And also, pointing out that the Earth seems to be much older than the Bible says, or pointing out that it makes no sense to pray to a perfect God is not going to convince any theists to abandon their metaphysical beliefs.

That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

religion posts are one of the main reason this forum was created. you are correct to say that religion does not directly relate to the topic heads, but are you really going to be that picky?

jason_t
06-27-2005, 09:31 PM
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So there are lots of philosophy snobs here. Got it. Doesnt mean religion isnt a legitimate topic. His post couldve substituted any number of "proper" philosophical topics in the part where he was talking about people not changing their minds.

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You're an idiot.

Zygote
06-27-2005, 09:47 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just stop.

This is a Science, Math, and Philosophy forum. Religion has no literal relation to any of the three.

And also, pointing out that the Earth seems to be much older than the Bible says, or pointing out that it makes no sense to pray to a perfect God is not going to convince any theists to abandon their metaphysical beliefs.

That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

religion posts are one of the main reason this forum was created. you are correct to say that religion does not directly relate to the topic heads, but are you really going to be that picky?

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, i took a university course called, Philosophy of Religion.

Aytumious
06-27-2005, 09:53 PM
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Just stop.

This is a Science, Math, and Philosophy forum. Religion has no literal relation to any of the three.

And also, pointing out that the Earth seems to be much older than the Bible says, or pointing out that it makes no sense to pray to a perfect God is not going to convince any theists to abandon their metaphysical beliefs.

That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

religion posts are one of the main reason this forum was created. you are correct to say that religion does not directly relate to the topic heads, but are you really going to be that picky?

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, i took a university course called, Philosophy of Religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Impossible! Analytical philosophers wouldn't have such a thing. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Cerril
06-27-2005, 09:58 PM
Analytical philosophy? Okaaay.

Anyway, if you don't like it just leave, no point in participating in or condemning a discussion that didn't involve you in the first place.

Though if an argument was ever solved by pointing out the contradictions in religion, I'd be very, very surprised; so I'm in agreement that there isn't much value in these threads -- I tend to ignore them.

kpux
06-27-2005, 10:03 PM
FWIW, many schools offer a BA in Theology. I think what is/isn't an "academic field" is open to debate. If you mean that Theology isn't a field of study where analytic reason and logic come into play, then I think I agree with you.

I should post here more often.

drudman
06-28-2005, 01:01 AM
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FWIW, many schools offer a BA in Theology. I think what is/isn't an "academic field" is open to debate. If you mean that Theology isn't a field of study where analytic reason and logic come into play, then I think I agree with you.

EDIT: Please note that I'm not using the word "nonsense" as it is used casually to be dismissive of something one does not like. I mean it as literally as possible.

I should post here more often.

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I'm saying that it is straight up and down is not academic. The coursework for that major concerns nil that is literally meaningful, outside of actual historical study. You study nonsense, and the history of that nonsense for 4 years, and get a diploma.

vulturesrow
06-28-2005, 02:41 AM
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You're an idiot.

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Well no not really. However, like most of us, I say idiotic things from time to time. That being said, the statement about "real philosophy" smacked of condescension to me. I could very well be wrong. I'm certainly willing to read about why this perceived to be true. If the condescension was only in my own mind, than I offer my apolgies.

I would also say that my point still holds about their being topics in philosophy (both real philosophy and unreal philosophy) that can be debated or discussed and never change anyone's mind.

Hopefully somone will be able to explain to me why analytical philosophy is the only real philosophy.

jason_t
06-28-2005, 03:17 AM
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Hopefully somone will be able to explain to me why analytical philosophy is the only real philosophy.

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The subjects of analytical philosophy and what some people call continental philosophy are completely different and appeal to very different people. Statements such as "analytical philosophy is the only real philosophy" are obviously hyperbole whose meaning is clear and shouldn't be taken as seriously as you seem to.

vulturesrow
06-28-2005, 03:21 AM
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The subjects of analytical philosophy and what some people call continental philosophy are completely different and appeal to very different people. Statements such as "analytical philosophy is the only real philosophy" are obviously hyperbole whose meaning is clear and shouldn't be taken as seriously as you seem to

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You are right, I probably shouldve picked up on this, not quite sure why I didnt. Maybe I really am an idiot. /images/graemlins/wink.gif At any rate, thanks for providing clarity. At some point if you feel so inclined, Id like to hear the differences between these two "schools" of philosophy. My sincerest apologies for the misunderstanding.

jason_t
06-28-2005, 03:35 AM
[ QUOTE ]
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The subjects of analytical philosophy and what some people call continental philosophy are completely different and appeal to very different people. Statements such as "analytical philosophy is the only real philosophy" are obviously hyperbole whose meaning is clear and shouldn't be taken as seriously as you seem to

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You are right, I probably shouldve picked up on this, not quite sure why I didnt. Maybe I really am an idiot. /images/graemlins/wink.gif At any rate, thanks for providing clarity. At some point if you feel so inclined, Id like to hear the differences between these two "schools" of philosophy. My sincerest apologies for the misunderstanding.

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I should also apologize for calling you an idiot; you're clearly not since you're approaching the conversation with a level head and an open mind. I am just tired of overreactions to things on this board though and didn't appreciate being called a snob when my statement was in no way spoken with snobbery nor intended to be.

As far as the differences, analytical philosophy tries very hard to be rational by laying out clearing arguments from a set of assumptions whereas continental philosophy tends to not approach its argument in this way. The former tries to be rigourous, the latter almost seems to assume that rigour is impossible as they tend to suppose that thought can't be abstracted away from the natural world.

vulturesrow
06-28-2005, 03:59 AM
No apology necessary on your part, as I did overreact and I shouldve been called on it. That said, it is appreciated.


Anyhow, after your explanation I googled "continental philosophy vs. analytical philosophy" and turned up this interesting explanation. (http://www.peterlevine.ws/mt/archives/000455.html) Do you agree with the writer's explanation? It certainly helped me understand yours better. At any rate, I learned something new, which is usually a good thing. I have always been interested in Philosoohy but have never really delved into it. I do see now why one might say religion isnt really a part of analytic philosophy, thought I will have to give that one some more thought.

AleoMagus
06-28-2005, 06:54 AM
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This is a Science, Math, and Philosophy forum. Religion has no literal relation to any of the three.





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Religion has a huge role in Philosophy. Your statement is ludicrous.





[/ QUOTE ]


Religion has no role in analytical philosophy; I imagine that is what the OP intended.





[/ QUOTE ]


Yes.

Many things are called philosophy. Most of them are nonsense.




[/ QUOTE ]


Enlighten me as to what is philosophy. I have a BA in philosophy and want to make sure my degree is at least relevent in its own field.





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Like Prevaricator said, analytic philosophy is real philosophy.




[/ QUOTE ]


Such as? Does epistemology count for anything. Was Kant a complete waste of time?




[/ QUOTE ]


Epistemology is a large part of analytic philosophy. Some of what Kant did is meaningful philosophy. Like most people who we call philosophers, some of what he did was not.





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What about Nietzsche, Hume, Heidegger (yuck), or Hegel (barf).

Actually, I have my degree from a very analytical school, UW-Madison, and I'm always curious what other people consider to be analytical philosophy.



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Anyone else think this post looks really cool?

Regards
Brad S

West
06-28-2005, 09:03 AM
This thread itself is pretty high on the valueless meter.

Personally, I would actually be pretty interested in a thread pointing out contradictions in say, the bible. Although I'd be more interested in moral/philosophical contradictions than chronological ones.

Cyrus
06-28-2005, 10:19 AM
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What about Nietzsche, Hume, Heidegger (yuck), or Hegel (barf)?

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What about 'em? I would be curious to know what makes a Philosophy BA to get so disgusted with Heidegger and Hegel. Care to elaborate a bit?

fnord_too
06-28-2005, 10:58 AM
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I agree. But the subject is homeless and will remain so.

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Why not just make a religion forum? There is a politics forum, which is pretty similar in nature. It is your site, no need for the topic that seems to intrest you greatly to remain homeless...

David Sklansky
06-28-2005, 06:06 PM
Twoplustwo having a religion forum would be sinful.

drudman
06-28-2005, 11:09 PM
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Twoplustwo having a religion forum would be sinful.

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Amen!

... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

AthenianStranger
06-29-2005, 02:58 AM
Religion has no relation to philosophy?

My Socratic daimon tells me that you are wrong.

FredJones888
06-29-2005, 08:05 AM
science is also related to religion if you go back far enough. It was only during the "age of reason" that science and religion seriously split.

drudman
06-29-2005, 01:16 PM
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science is also related to religion if you go back far enough. It was only during the "age of reason" that science and religion seriously split.

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To make it clear, I know that religion, philosophy and science have been intertwined throughout history.

I am saying that anything that we call philosophy or science that involved religion, or any metaphysical utterances for that matter, is not actually philosophy or science, but nonsense.