Whats a Calling Station?

[toss]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Hero posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero (poster) checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (12.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.75 BB

Yes?

[imported_leader]

95o is a god awful hand. Muck this preflop. Even getting 12 to 1

[toss]

Rest of the streets?

[JoshuaD]

I want to fold this preflop really bad, but I think you're right to call if you can handle yourself postflop and not get into deep trouble. Having the relative button is another reason in favor of calling.

Good flop bet.

I play the rest the same, but I really wanna find another line that's better. Those turn and river cards are bad for you -- you're pretty much only ahead of AK now or AT now.

If the pot was a little smaller I would have bet/folded the turn, but he'd be right to call with UI overcards with such a large pot.

[brettbrettr]

I think I hate the river overcall.

[imported_leader]

[ QUOTE ]
Rest of the streets?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well the flop is clearly good. I was thinking check/fold the turn, but that doesn't make any sense if you beat the flop because button with raise almost anything there. Maybe bet/fold the turn followed by Check/call 1 on the river.

Edit: you can't bet the turn and turn fold to a raise either because of the odds. So I guess check/call is the only choice.

[toss]

I would have folded if I had to overcall.

[imported_leader]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I hate the river overcall.

[/ QUOTE ]

UTG+1 folded.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think I hate the river overcall.

[/ QUOTE ]

UTG+1 folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad, my bad....

[Shillx]

Preflop is okay if you play the hand this way IMO. You can't call preflop for a monster since it will not happen often enough.

The only street that I could see doing again is the river, but calling doesn't seem like a terrible option given that you don't know anything about the button. It just doesn't seem likely that you have the best hand there given what the 4th/5th street cards are and that he is betting again into 2 players. Folding is probably better but again there are a ton of reasons to call here (info, pot size, peace of mind, etc).

Brad

[sthief09]

I like

[brettbrettr]

OK, pre-flop is a fold for most people. I don't have a problem with the call though, in your case.

Still, I think the river call might be a bit overboard. You're basically only beating AK here--hard to put the guy on hearts after the pre-flop raise. I'm not saying I don't make this call but I am saying that I regret most of them, tell myself to let someone else play sherrif, and get on with it...

[Entity]

I'm not sure about the river. The rest is pretty good though.

[toss]

Yeah I think theres a good argument to fold the river, but theres also a chance that villain has AK or a donk hand. I just want to suck out all the EV I can.

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure about the river. The rest is pretty good though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that the river call is thin, but I think it's right. If we had a read we might be able to fold, but this pot is very large and we're closing the action HU.

If UTG+1 had called or if we had a read, I would have advocated folding the river.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure about the river. The rest is pretty good though.

[/ QUOTE ]



I think the AK factor is enough

[jjacky]

i am a bit surprised that i disagree in most points with many posters here. my thoughts:

pre flop: i think this is a clear fold. the equity of your hand in a multiway pot is terribly low.

flop: you may well be behind here and there are certainly very many draws out against you. i would fold on the flop.

turn: same as on the flop. i fold here.

river: i think this is a thin call, but i guess i would not have reached the river...

[toss]

Thanks for the comments guys. I would have never been able to play this hand if it weren't for all of you. 2+2 has been good to me.


Final Pot: 14.75 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has 5c 9d (one pair, nines).
Button has 5d 5s (one pair, fives).
Outcome: Hero wins 14.75 BB. </font>

[Shillx]

turn: same as on the flop. i fold here.

How big is the pot at this point? How many outs do we have should the button have AA? How often will we have the best hand?

All you seem to compute is if we have the button beat at a certain point...you make no mention to outs or pot size and that should be of great concern. You don't have to think that your hand is good to continue in a pot.

Brad

[jjacky]

ok, i'm sorry. the tables i were (and am) playing distracted me a bit. i would check and call a single bet on the flop.
but i don't like to invest more. hero may very well be drawing to 4 outs or less with strong redraws (and reversed implied odds) against him. any of the 4 cards may well be tainted.

[mtdoak]

whats your read on the flop cold caller? That would be the deciding factor here. If he's on a flush draw and your pretty sure your behind to the button....this might be a fold. 2 of your outs to make two pair or trips are dead...I would have a hard time continuing after the flop.

Edit: I thought you saw the flop for free. Even getting 12-1, you need to fold this preflop. It just makes too many 2nd best hands.

[toss]

Only one of my outs would be dead to a flush.

PF may be thin, but I think its profitable if you know when to fold.

[mtdoak]

Thats still 20% of your outs....

[toss]

So you think I should fold on the turn? I'm getting more than correct odds closing the action with 4 outs.

[mtdoak]

IMHO when you called the flop you have commited yourself to calling down to any non /images/graemlins/heart.gif card. You can be a bluff+a flush draw, and the pot is about the right size where a call would be profitable.

[jjacky]

you might very well have been up against a better 9 and a flush draw, decreasing the number of your outs to 2. or imagine the guy who was (probably) on a flush draw had a better 9. in this case you would have been drawing to a runner runner boat.

[henrikrh]

Wow, I actually disagree with almost all the other posters, strange. No one else (from my skimming of the posts) has suggested you should 3-bet the floop for information. If he caps you can fold knowing you only lost a SB not a BB to an over pair or a better kicker. If you are ahead he will slow down adn you can keep up the aggression and take this down without a showdown.

Having seen the results, he would have folded to a 3-bet, so claling down turned out to be more profitable, but sitll the wrong move in my opinion.

Could someone enlighten me as to why a 3-bet might be the wrong play here?

[Shillx]

No one else (from my skimming of the posts) has suggested you should 3-bet the floop for information. If he caps you can fold knowing you only lost a SB not a BB to an over pair or a better kicker.

This makes me cringe. There is no way that we are folding this hand pre-river. He could flip up AA and I would gladly call all the way.

[QTip]

I play it the same way.

[thejameser]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure about the river. The rest is pretty good though.

[/ QUOTE ]

[henrikrh]

[ QUOTE ]
No one else (from my skimming of the posts) has suggested you should 3-bet the floop for information. If he caps you can fold knowing you only lost a SB not a BB to an over pair or a better kicker.

This makes me cringe. There is no way that we are folding this hand pre-river. He could flip up AA and I would gladly call all the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Depending on the read I would fold instantly if I thought he had A9, which is why I would raise here to find out.

Everyone seems to say they are unsure about the river call, so you are all calling this with 5-outs? 20% or so for 1.5 big bets, forgot the pot size. But it should be 7.5 BB to warrent a call, no? You gotta get 5-1 on a 20% shot, right?

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]

Everyone seems to say they are unsure about the river call, so you are all calling this with 5-outs?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand. You have zero outs on the river---there are no more cards to come. I"m sure I'm misunderstanding this though....

[PokerGal7777]

Now maybe you had the best hand on the flop, the BB could have had AQ, AJ, or AK. But why you even thought about calling the turn w/ 3 opponets, is just sick. And the river call, is just terrible. I still question why you called pre-flop anyways.