J4s blind defense

[DBowling]

Maybe a little loose, but i do not allow my blinds to be stolen freely. Villian is 13/7/1.6 with 33% ASB.

Thoughts to come...

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. CO posts a blind of $3.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO (poster) raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.16 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises...

[imported_leader]

How do you know Villain’s stats? He just posted. Anyway, I believe it's +ev for him to raise with any 2. So I think your call is good. Once you get past that, I think CC the flop. Then, CR the turn. Is a good line.

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you know Villain’s stats? He just posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

youve never played with the same person twice?

[chesspain]

I would toss that cheese. Your hand is no better than a random hand, it has no showdown value, and you are OOP against a TAG (albeit a somewhat passive one). Although there is an extra small bet in the pot, the dead SB is still only 1/3 and your're mixing it up with someone just for the sake of mixing it up.

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
I would toss that cheese. Your hand is no better than a random hand, it has no showdown value, and you are OOP against a TAG (albeit a somewhat passive one). Although there is an extra small bet in the pot, the dead SB is still only 1/3 and your're mixing it up with someone just for the sake of mixing it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

If CO posted then he is going to be stealing with around 60-70% of his hands.

-SmileyEH

[clownshoes]

[ QUOTE ]

If CO posted then he is going to be stealing with around 60-70% of his hands.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?
Even if that was true how would that make J4s any better? The hands sucks, toss it.

[Alpha13]

CO has to put only one more bet to take a shot at the blinds, which is nice for K2-98 (just a rough estimate of the top 70%) All these hands will hate a turn C/R on this board, so I think I like it

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If CO posted then he is going to be stealing with around 60-70% of his hands.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?
Even if that was true how would that make J4s any better? The hands sucks, toss it.

[/ QUOTE ]

J4s is slightly worse than a random hand (49%)

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would toss that cheese. Your hand is no better than a random hand, it has no showdown value, and you are OOP against a TAG (albeit a somewhat passive one). Although there is an extra small bet in the pot, the dead SB is still only 1/3 and your're mixing it up with someone just for the sake of mixing it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

If CO posted then he is going to be stealing with around 60-70% of his hands.


[/ QUOTE ]

J4s is almost exactly a coin-flip against a random hand. And given this TAG's numbers, I'ld say that a steal rate closer to 60% is reasonable.

Does that really push this mediocre hand to a call?

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would toss that cheese. Your hand is no better than a random hand, it has no showdown value, and you are OOP against a TAG (albeit a somewhat passive one). Although there is an extra small bet in the pot, the dead SB is still only 1/3 and your're mixing it up with someone just for the sake of mixing it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

If CO posted then he is going to be stealing with around 60-70% of his hands.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

And if the guy is any good, he will be raising 100% of his hands.

[imported_leader]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How do you know Villain’s stats? He just posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

youve never played with the same person twice?

[/ QUOTE ]

You must use PV because GT+ takes at least one hand to load.

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]

You must use PV because GT+ takes at least one hand to load.

[/ QUOTE ]

correct

[SmileyEH]

This is kind of a tangent, but I think one of the biggest mistakes that players who post here make is not stealing enough, and not defending enough. And when they do see flops they show an unwilligness to bluff and semi-bluff as much as possible. Just my 2c.

-SmileyEH

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
Although there is an extra small bet in the pot, the dead SB is still only 1/3

[/ QUOTE ]

dont forget im defending my BB also

[HolyBejeesus]

Let's not forget, we don't need to be ahead of Villian's stealing range to make this a call. We are getting over 3:1 to see the flop.

[toss]

Is PV really worth the $50? I use GT and I find having to manually load helps me pay more attention to the tables I'm playing. Instead of, you know, jealously reading about everybodys' trip to Vegas. Why can't I be 21 now?

[sthief09]

this is not how we make money at limit texas hold them

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
this is not how we make money at limit texas hold them

[/ QUOTE ]

preflop, flop, or turn? or all?

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is not how we make money at limit texas hold them

[/ QUOTE ]

preflop, flop, or turn? or all?

[/ QUOTE ]


all of the above, especially the idea that on the flop you're going to make a terrible call to attempt to take a shot at the turn. preflop you have a hand that's going to rarely hit the flop, whcih means you're going to be in situations where you're going to try to get creative when you flop nothing, and end up bluffing into someone who has you drawing to runner runner

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
This is kind of a tangent, but I think one of the biggest mistakes that players who post here make is not stealing enough, and not defending enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's funny you say this, because I was flamed for my pre-flop defense decision in the following hand:

link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=smallholdem&amp;Number=272 1568&amp;Forum=,,All_Forums,,&amp;Words=&amp;Searchpage=1&amp;Limi t=25&amp;Main=2721568&amp;Search=true&amp;where=&amp;Name=4165&amp;dat erange=&amp;newerval=&amp;newertype=&amp;olderval=&amp;oldertype=&amp; bodyprev=#Post2721568)

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
especially the idea that on the flop you're going to make a terrible call to attempt to take a shot at the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

there is a small chance i am ahead. he will raise a lot of hands preflop here.

when im behind, my outs are more likely to be clean than in other HU situations.

this is the only turn card i would take a shot with, as i can fold out a lot of better hands.

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's not forget, we don't need to be ahead of Villian's stealing range to make this a call. We are getting over 3:1 to see the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let's not forget, we don't need to be ahead of Villian's stealing range to make this a call. We are getting over 3:1 to see the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be all well and good if Hero was calling all-in without worrying about the pesky matter of playing the flop and beyond.

[DBowling]

i think i handle myself well preflop, though im not certain that this is a good example of that.

[Jeff W]

How many hands on villain?

I don't think the pre flop call is bad. Your equity is 40-50% w/ 3.3:1 odds. Of course, you need to dump your hand most of the time post flop.

Fold the flop. Fold the turn.

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is kind of a tangent, but I think one of the biggest mistakes that players who post here make is not stealing enough, and not defending enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's funny you say this, because I was flamed for my pre-flop defense decision in the following hand:

link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=smallholdem&amp;Number=272 1568&amp;Forum=,,All_Forums,,&amp;Words=&amp;Searchpage=1&amp;Limi t=25&amp;Main=2721568&amp;Search=true&amp;where=&amp;Name=4165&amp;dat erange=&amp;newerval=&amp;newertype=&amp;olderval=&amp;oldertype=&amp; bodyprev=#Post2721568)

[/ QUOTE ]

What I think, and what many posters on the board think are often in dissagreement. In this hand though I think even 64s is beyond what I would defend with, unless I had a good read on the villian. However, defending with it can never be much more than a very small mistake.

-SmileyEH

[SmileyEH]

I'd just like to say I think the preflop call is correct, but I don't agree with postflop play. This is a board I'd much rather just checkfold on.

-SmileyEH

[soweak.]

I would agree with most of the people and dump it pre-flop. I dont even think againt a random hand you're much of a favorite, plus the only real reason to play against him is to hit a favorable flop, which hasn't happened.

However, on the turn I would just call then lead the river. The only reason is that the check/call, check-raise on this board is to be expected with every hand except any hands that are winning here. Against good players a board of 666A is too good a board to bluff, so when you lead the turn it looks as if you're value betting as opposed to sucking your opponent in with a turn C/R.

Against a good opponent I feel you will just get three-bet way to often with and hand the CO might steal with.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
especially the idea that on the flop you're going to make a terrible call to attempt to take a shot at the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

there is a small chance i am ahead. he will raise a lot of hands preflop here.

when im behind, my outs are more likely to be clean than in other HU situations.

this is the only turn card i would take a shot with, as i can fold out a lot of better hands.

[/ QUOTE ]


who cares if you have the best hand? he has initiative. you have 6 outs even if he has 32o

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
this is the only turn card i would take a shot with, as i can fold out a lot of better hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is true then you should be folding the flop.

[Nick C]

Regarding preflop: I am tempted to play, as CO should be raising a very high percentage of the time in this spot.

However, I will say that I don't actually see many "any two" steal-raises from posters in the CO at Party 3/6.

This Villain could be a player who makes such steal-raises, though.

If that's what you strongly suspect, and you want to play, I wonder if 3-betting preflop might be something to consider.

I don't think I'd do it, because I'd be too worried CO had a real hand, but I thought I'd bring up the idea.