Moovyz
06-26-2005, 12:15 PM
Let me state categorically that I am a huge fan of Greg's game. And also I'd like to congratulate him on his top 10 finish in the $1,500 NL.
But after reading the log from the final table play, it seems as though Greg may be calling too often instead of possibly raising and winning the pot there or getting re-raised and being able to release a couple of hands.
I'd like to get other opinions and also hear from Greg when he has time.
I'll use 3 examples for this discussion. All were from play at the $1,500 NL final table:
Hand 12 - Nguyen has the button in seat 1, Raymer raises to $40,000, and Ulliott calls. We have the first flop of the day! The flop comes 8d-7d-3h, and both players check. The turn card is the 5c, Ulliott bets $60,000, and Raymer stares him down from behind his trademark specs with the unblinking reptilian eyes. Raymer then counts out the chips and makes the call. The river card is the 10s, Ulliott bets $80,000, and Raymer calls. Raymer shows pocket sixes, and Ulliott mucks his cards. Raymer wins the pot.
OK, he wins this pot but clearly he might have been behind to a higher pair, etc. a raise at some point might have given some additional info. I'm guessing Greg had a good read here, but even then, why not a raise? If Devilfish had an 8 or 7, he might have moved him off of it.
Hand 18 - Lee has the button in seat 7, Raymer limps from the small blind, and Seif checks his option. The flop comes Ah-5d-3d, Raymer checks, Seif bets $20,000, and Raymer calls. The turn card is the 8h, Raymer checks, Seif bets $50,000, and Raymer calls. The river card is the 8c, Raymer checks, Seif pushes all in for about $185,000, and Raymer calls. Seif shows 4-2 for a flopped straight, while Raymer shows A-10. Mark Seif doubles up.
I don't understand the call on the flop. It seems that a raise is in order unless he believes he is dominating the hand. But then why give a free card? It may be that Greg thought Mark had a missed flush but again... Given the hand that Mark flopped, a raise might have brought a re-raise and then might Greg have gotten off cheaper.
Hand 27 - Lee has the button in seat 7, Raymer limps from the small blind, and Seif checks his option from the big blind. The flop comes 9d-7d-4d, Raymer checks his option, Seif bets $21,000, and Raymer calls. The turn card is the Ad, and both players check. the river card is the 6d, putting five diamonds out on the board. Raymer checks, Seif bets $35,000, and Raymer calls. Seif shows the 8d to win the pot.
Here again, I think Greg might have won this hand earlier with a raise, especially on the turn. By showing weakness on the turn, he gives Mark a chance to make additional money on the river.
I don't mean this as a "dis" to Greg. He's a great champion and has shown he can back it up with his top 10 in a tough field this year. But I just wonder if there is any chance his game has altered a bit because of his "star" status or trying to hard too do well.
Comments?
But after reading the log from the final table play, it seems as though Greg may be calling too often instead of possibly raising and winning the pot there or getting re-raised and being able to release a couple of hands.
I'd like to get other opinions and also hear from Greg when he has time.
I'll use 3 examples for this discussion. All were from play at the $1,500 NL final table:
Hand 12 - Nguyen has the button in seat 1, Raymer raises to $40,000, and Ulliott calls. We have the first flop of the day! The flop comes 8d-7d-3h, and both players check. The turn card is the 5c, Ulliott bets $60,000, and Raymer stares him down from behind his trademark specs with the unblinking reptilian eyes. Raymer then counts out the chips and makes the call. The river card is the 10s, Ulliott bets $80,000, and Raymer calls. Raymer shows pocket sixes, and Ulliott mucks his cards. Raymer wins the pot.
OK, he wins this pot but clearly he might have been behind to a higher pair, etc. a raise at some point might have given some additional info. I'm guessing Greg had a good read here, but even then, why not a raise? If Devilfish had an 8 or 7, he might have moved him off of it.
Hand 18 - Lee has the button in seat 7, Raymer limps from the small blind, and Seif checks his option. The flop comes Ah-5d-3d, Raymer checks, Seif bets $20,000, and Raymer calls. The turn card is the 8h, Raymer checks, Seif bets $50,000, and Raymer calls. The river card is the 8c, Raymer checks, Seif pushes all in for about $185,000, and Raymer calls. Seif shows 4-2 for a flopped straight, while Raymer shows A-10. Mark Seif doubles up.
I don't understand the call on the flop. It seems that a raise is in order unless he believes he is dominating the hand. But then why give a free card? It may be that Greg thought Mark had a missed flush but again... Given the hand that Mark flopped, a raise might have brought a re-raise and then might Greg have gotten off cheaper.
Hand 27 - Lee has the button in seat 7, Raymer limps from the small blind, and Seif checks his option from the big blind. The flop comes 9d-7d-4d, Raymer checks his option, Seif bets $21,000, and Raymer calls. The turn card is the Ad, and both players check. the river card is the 6d, putting five diamonds out on the board. Raymer checks, Seif bets $35,000, and Raymer calls. Seif shows the 8d to win the pot.
Here again, I think Greg might have won this hand earlier with a raise, especially on the turn. By showing weakness on the turn, he gives Mark a chance to make additional money on the river.
I don't mean this as a "dis" to Greg. He's a great champion and has shown he can back it up with his top 10 in a tough field this year. But I just wonder if there is any chance his game has altered a bit because of his "star" status or trying to hard too do well.
Comments?