Folding a winner

[Jim Easton]

Party Poker 3/6, typical loose/passive game. I get QQ in the CO. 3 limpers in front of me - 1 early, 2 middle. I raise, button calls, SB and BB call, limpers call.

Flop is A99. Checked to me, I bet, button call, SB calls and 2 limpers call. Several of them are "call any raise with any ace, then call to the river and hope" type players. I decide there is an ace or maybe a 9 out. Turn is a jack, checked to me, I check, button checks. River is a 9, checked to button, who bets, SB calls. I decide the pot is protected and fold. Button turns over KJo and SB turns over J2o for a split.

I'm trying to find leaks in my post-flop play. Considering the trash they play before the flop, I should be way up, but have been on a death spiral lately. One of my most common mistakes is calling on the end just to see what kind of trash they called the raise cold with. It is usually worth a good laugh, but gets expensive, so I'm not doing that any more. The majority of my losses are to hands I wouldn't complete the small blind with, let alone call a raise cold with.

If you play at Party Poker, I am Aggie86. Hammer me with my mistakes.

[J.R.]

I think checking the turn obligates you to call one bet on the river. Given the scary board I have would bet the turn unless I was worried about an aggresisve player knocking me off the best hand, which is why I would call the river for one bet.

[Ed Miller]

I think you need to overcall here. While you need a better hand to overcall with than to just call, you also have to take into account how loosely your opponents will call the river. Since your call closes the action and the pot is relatively big... I think you have a clear overcall.

Also, please post the results in a separate post... it's a lot harder to give objective advice when you already know the results.

[Dynasty]

If you want to find out if somebody has an Ace or 9, the way to do it is to bet the turn. When you get checked to again on the river, your QQ is good and you should bet.

[Jim Easton]

Also, please post the results in a separate post... it's a lot harder to give objective advice when you already know the results.

Yes, dumb mistake. Will remember that in the future.

[bad beetz]

both players called a flop bet with nothing but undercards and no draws.

chumps.

since you didn't bet the turn you have to call the river

[Jim Easton]

I probably wimped out, but check and call is exactly how they would play their ace rag.

[Homer]

I would bet the turn when checked to. If raised you can fold, and if called you may be able to value bet on the river. I do agree with you, though, that many of these players will call you down with any ace, so you might want to check it through on the river, depending on what happens after you bet the turn.

-- Homer

[Rube]

Easy to say now that I've seen the results, but you're getting 11.5:1 on your river call and there with no chance of a raise since you close the action, and you beat a lot of hands people could bet and call with here (10-22 and hands with a jack).

[Bob T.]

One of the things that I like to watch in my opponents, is to see when they fold after they have missed the flop. Both of your opponents on this hand called a flop bet, when they might have been drawing dead, or nearly dead. This should tell you that when up against these players, you have to bet the turn also, because the fact that they called the flop bet means only that they had 2 cards, and 3 chips. They will frequently fold on the turn. Some players will chase like this to the river, and then you have to fire all three barrels. Of course the lowest variance opponents are those who will see the flop for two bets, and then fold if they missed, but sometimes you have to make two or three bets to get rid of some of the more persistant chasers.

Additionally, you never want to slowplay these guys if you are ahead, because they will call you with nothing, so every round you let go by is a round where you didn't make any money from them.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[Dynasty]

...check and call is exactly how they would play their ace rag.

That's not a reason to check the turn with QQ. It's a reason to bet.

When players are so passive that they won't bet/raise you with better hands but will call with worse hands, then you should bet your medium strenth hands for value since they won't punish you for it. These are the perfect players to make marginal bets against.