let's talk next to last table strategy...

[whiskeytown]

I have a hole in my game, I think...I've placed in the 2nd to last table on 80 percent of the last few tourneys I've played...usually with a middle stack (8 out of 16) - although occasionally something more like 21st out of 25th (on a 2 table payout) -

I don't know if I'm not slowing down enough or just getting unlucky...it seems at this stage, luck more then anything determines who gets to the final table...I generally know when a player is making a move at that point (if he's been raising the whole way or not...)

and I was inclined to let it go based on the fact a lot of my losses were pure domination (took JJ or QQ vs KK or AA) or the downside of a 50/50 draw - (AJ vs 33, flop 2 pair, but he turns a 3 to drag it..)

and yet we all know that just sitting there and letting bad players steal your blinds is a sure fire way to the 10th place spot...so I try my steals, but maybe I'm trying too much...

and yes, at this point in the game, I know enough to muck a raised hand...unless I'm really short stacked or I have AA/KK/AK, I will generally let it go, and AK if I have a big stack...

so I ask the pros what your tactics are when you get to the next to last table...do you just shut down entirely...bear in mind, I'm always an average stack...never in the top 3 or 5 unless I got creamed with the deck... -

when I'm short stacked, I just pick my battles and throw it all in when I've got a third of my chips in if no good hands with an A came up...and in fact, have done fairly well a few times from behind because there is no question...I HAVE to gamble in those spots...when I take that philosophy to the middle of the average though, it creams me...

anyone who wishes to make a comment based on seeing me play is also more then welcome, although I tend to be a bit skeptical...LOL..

RB

[Greg (FossilMan)]

You say you do fine when you're short-stacked, as you know what hand is good enough to commit to and go all-in.

It's often going to be the same question with a middling stack, it simply hurts more when you lose. Pick a hand you're willing to go with, and then generally go all the way, absent relatively clear reasons to give up.

So, if you pick AJ as the first one in from late position, don't automatically give up if you get called by the blind, miss the flop, and then get bet into. Make a judgment call, of course, as to how likely it is you're beat. If this guy is too plodding to semi-bluff or outright bluff the flop, then fold. However, if he's a tricky and/or aggressive player, don't give up so readily. Be prepared to make a play at the pot.

I guess what I'm really saying is, don't give up just because you're not sure if you're ahead. Only give up when you're pretty sure you're beat.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[ohkanada]

Strangely enough I have had the same issue in January. I have played 8 NL tournies. I have had 3 2nd table finishes.

Now the 1st one we were 5 or 6 handed and I raised with A7 and got re-raised against AT. In that situation I should have either raised all-in or just mucked. The problem was I was the low stack. This was the most disappointing since I came back from not much to be 3rd of 18 but things didn't go well on that table.

The 2nd one was bad luck. KK vs AA in almost the 1st hand when we got to 2 tables.

The 3rd one I was doing a lot of re-raising and raised with 88. I was re-raised all-in and felt they may be attempting to push me off. Unfortunately they had 99.

I think being the aggressor when down to a few tables is correct. Many people try to shutdown espicially when you are down to 6 or 7 on each table. Find the people who are willing to fold and push pairs and big cards. Also be willing to call smaller stacks all-in bets when it is likely they are desperate.

I have only played with you a few times I think. The last time I was short stacked and went all-in with a big ace and lost to KJ.

Ken Poklitar

[The Prince]

Hi,

It's hard to say but I think you might be playing too tight. In your post in the thread about the AK vs 4 limpers hand you state that you tighten up a bit in the later stages. And you also say:

"at this point in the game, I know enough to muck a raised hand...unless I'm really short stacked or I have AA/KK/AK, I will generally let it go, and AK if I have a big stack..."

To me this is way too tight. I mean typical players will raise with many many hands to steal the blinds in the late stages. So you should tend to attack the loose raisers with many subpar hands like 88 or AJ. Many times, they will fold to a reraise. And many times, you will have the best hand.

This might help in accumulating chips when close to the bubble.

[whiskeytown]

well, different situation...I do tend to play more aggressive in the middle stages, esp. after the first hour and a lot of the wild players have busted out or made themselves known....

in the end though, it comes down to me with a great hand usually vs. someone with a better hand...and with no danger cards (like an A on the flop) - I usually get killed on it..

lately though, it's been bad luck too...I never want to push all in anymore...I could have AA vs 27 offsuit and I'd cringe...just waiting for the miracle to hit the flop or turn...been that kind of month...

RB

[Ray Zee]

you have to win all the chips to win the tourny. so do you want to try to win them when you have decent chips and can make good plays. or wait until you have less chips and the blinds are high and the only play you make is move in and hope no one behind you can find a hand.
the two best times to get chips is early in the tourny from the bad players that will be gone real soon and around the last two tables when the tights are giving up most of their chances to win just to get into the money for a small payoff.