phil ivey just saying "fug it" to the wsop prelim events

[CDSNUTSINYAMOUTH]

this from david williams' blog:
"After that I was seriously considering following in the steps of my friend Phil Ivey and hanging it up at the WSOP until the main event, although for different reasons. He doesn't really care about them, and is playing the 4k-8k game over at the Bellagio with Doyle, Chip, and the gang."

haha i guess phil ivey doesn't give a damn about the wsop bracelets. he's really just losing money entering these small buy-in tournaments with large fields, where I guess he bets these buy-ins on each round of betting in the big game.

[mmbt0ne]

He's said before that he always does poorly at tournaments when there are big cash games going on. He takes a much more aggressive style where he either builds a big stack up fast and early, or busts out and is able to get back to the ring games, where he has a higher EV.

One of the last tournaments he was at that didn't have a big cash game running was the Turning Stone one with the live final table, which he won.

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
this from david williams' blog:
"After that I was seriously considering following in the steps of my friend Phil Ivey and hanging it up at the WSOP until the main event, although for different reasons. He doesn't really care about them, and is playing the 4k-8k game over at the Bellagio with Doyle, Chip, and the gang."

haha i guess phil ivey doesn't give a damn about the wsop bracelets. he's really just losing money entering these small buy-in tournaments with large fields, where I guess he bets these buy-ins on each round of betting in the big game.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you are at the level that Phil, Doyle, Barry, Chau, Chip, etc., are, you either care about winning a bracelet or you don't. In Barry's case, he plays to give the money to charity. If he didn't do that, I would be willing to bet Barry would also not care too much about the smaller events. They win/lose as much or more than 1st place pays anyway, so other than the bracelet, what would attract them? They already have the fame and accolades so that's out.

OTOH, there's Hellmuth, who will play in every event possible so he can win his 10th bracelet and tell anybody who'll listen about it.

[plaid]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess he bets these buy-ins on each round of betting in the big game.

[/ QUOTE ]

True (assuming there isn't a raise on that round -- some rounds cost more than the entry into the $25K WPT Final Event). I find it pretty freakin' wild to think that these guys are wagering a month's salary on each round (we're talking a $80K a year job). Note to self -- get to Vegas one day soon and watch one of the last bastions of pure capitalism left on the planet, even from afar.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
this from david williams' blog:
"After that I was seriously considering following in the steps of my friend Phil Ivey and hanging it up at the WSOP until the main event, although for different reasons. He doesn't really care about them, and is playing the 4k-8k game over at the Bellagio with Doyle, Chip, and the gang."

haha i guess phil ivey doesn't give a damn about the wsop bracelets. he's really just losing money entering these small buy-in tournaments with large fields, where I guess he bets these buy-ins on each round of betting in the big game.

[/ QUOTE ]

in a sense, i don't blame him. i'm sure cash games for him, as with most successful cash players, is steady money. Chau Giang, i think it was at the WPT Tunica event, said that he wins or loses $200,000 to $300,000 a night. let's take winning $300,000 in several hours in the $4K/$8K. in this year's $10K ME, he would have to play for several days and make it to possibly the last 2 or 3 tables out of thousands of players to win that kind of money. that's not to say all the $4K/$8K regulars won't be in the $10K ME but it can certainly shed some light on their mentality toward these lower buy-in 2 day events.

[Scooterdoo]

I sat his his table at the $1k rebuy NL event and I'm pretty sure I saw him at least one or two of the other events I've been in. I played the two $2.5k events this weekend (just got busted out of the $2.5k pot limit in 98th place) and didn't see him in either one, so perhaps he has changed his mind since I saw him two weeks ago.

[LargeCents]

[ QUOTE ]
this from david williams' blog:
"After that I was seriously considering following in the steps of my friend Phil Ivey and hanging it up at the WSOP until the main event, although for different reasons. He doesn't really care about them, and is playing the 4k-8k game over at the Bellagio with Doyle, Chip, and the gang."

haha i guess phil ivey doesn't give a damn about the wsop bracelets. he's really just losing money entering these small buy-in tournaments with large fields, where I guess he bets these buy-ins on each round of betting in the big game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yet another argument for a bigger buy-in super event at the WSOP. Perhaps eventually the top pros won't even play the ME anymore. The EV just isn't there. Does a bracelet really mean that much?

[Karak567]

[ QUOTE ]
Does a bracelet really mean that much?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[MrMon]

[ QUOTE ]
in a sense, i don't blame him. i'm sure cash games for him, as with most successful cash players, is steady money. Chau Giang, i think it was at the WPT Tunica event, said that he wins or loses $200,000 to $300,000 a night. let's take winning $300,000 in several hours in the $4K/$8K. in this year's $10K ME, he would have to play for several days and make it to possibly the last 2 or 3 tables out of thousands of players to win that kind of money. that's not to say all the $4K/$8K regulars won't be in the $10K ME but it can certainly shed some light on their mentality toward these lower buy-in 2 day events.

[/ QUOTE ]

A few months ago, it was stated by someone in the know that at most, the big names have a win rate of less than 1 BB/hr in the big game. Maybe this changes during the World Series, more fish perhaps, but in any case, you need to redo your analysis based on this figure, not $300K in a night.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]

Yet another argument for a bigger buy-in super event at the WSOP. Perhaps eventually the top pros won't even play the ME anymore. The EV just isn't there. Does a bracelet really mean that much?

[/ QUOTE ]

It means a lot of money for the winner. And if the winner is a top name in Poker (Ivey, Hansen, Hellmuth etc) it is worth even more since they are more attractive to sponsors than a relatively unknown player.

[augie00]

Maybe Phil just entered the first few events to get a feel for the Rio before the Main Event started.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe Phil just entered the first few events to get a feel for the Rio before the Main Event started.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on what I read earlier the biggest problem for him is that even when he enters these small events, he is more eager to make it to the side game. And when you have the attitude that you wouldn't mind busting, I think it is not all that surprising that he doesn't perform at his highest level.

I think another factor worth considering is that for degenerates like Ivey, the side games really cut into his sleep. I do suspect most of them try to get some more sleep for the main event though.

[newhizzle]

this means their long term win-rate is about 8 g's an hour, but he is talking about a standard deviation of about 200-300 thousand

[GFunk911]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
in a sense, i don't blame him. i'm sure cash games for him, as with most successful cash players, is steady money. Chau Giang, i think it was at the WPT Tunica event, said that he wins or loses $200,000 to $300,000 a night. let's take winning $300,000 in several hours in the $4K/$8K. in this year's $10K ME, he would have to play for several days and make it to possibly the last 2 or 3 tables out of thousands of players to win that kind of money. that's not to say all the $4K/$8K regulars won't be in the $10K ME but it can certainly shed some light on their mentality toward these lower buy-in 2 day events.

[/ QUOTE ]

A few months ago, it was stated by someone in the know that at most, the big names have a win rate of less than 1 BB/hr in the big game. Maybe this changes during the World Series, more fish perhaps, but in any case, you need to redo your analysis based on this figure, not $300K in a night.

[/ QUOTE ]

Assistance (http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Avariance&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official)

[1p0kerb0y]

[ QUOTE ]


A few months ago, it was stated by someone in the know that at most, the big names have a win rate of less than 1 BB/hr in the big game. Maybe this changes during the World Series, more fish perhaps, but in any case, you need to redo your analysis based on this figure, not $300K in a night.

[/ QUOTE ]

An expectation of even 4K an hour can produce swings of even 200K-300K a night based on the standard deviation. Do you see why? For further reading check out Gambling Theories and Other Topics

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
in a sense, i don't blame him. i'm sure cash games for him, as with most successful cash players, is steady money. Chau Giang, i think it was at the WPT Tunica event, said that he wins or loses $200,000 to $300,000 a night. let's take winning $300,000 in several hours in the $4K/$8K. in this year's $10K ME, he would have to play for several days and make it to possibly the last 2 or 3 tables out of thousands of players to win that kind of money. that's not to say all the $4K/$8K regulars won't be in the $10K ME but it can certainly shed some light on their mentality toward these lower buy-in 2 day events.

[/ QUOTE ]

A few months ago, it was stated by someone in the know that at most, the big names have a win rate of less than 1 BB/hr in the big game. Maybe this changes during the World Series, more fish perhaps, but in any case, you need to redo your analysis based on this figure, not $300K in a night.

[/ QUOTE ] http://www.forumspile.com/Newbie-Bomb.jpg

[kemystery]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
in a sense, i don't blame him. i'm sure cash games for him, as with most successful cash players, is steady money. Chau Giang, i think it was at the WPT Tunica event, said that he wins or loses $200,000 to $300,000 a night. let's take winning $300,000 in several hours in the $4K/$8K. in this year's $10K ME, he would have to play for several days and make it to possibly the last 2 or 3 tables out of thousands of players to win that kind of money. that's not to say all the $4K/$8K regulars won't be in the $10K ME but it can certainly shed some light on their mentality toward these lower buy-in 2 day events.

[/ QUOTE ]

A few months ago, it was stated by someone in the know that at most, the big names have a win rate of less than 1 BB/hr in the big game. Maybe this changes during the World Series, more fish perhaps, but in any case, you need to redo your analysis based on this figure, not $300K in a night.

[/ QUOTE ]

not sure if this has been mentioned, the game is a rotation game with rounds of Pot Limit Omaha, NL 2-7 single draw, and NL Hold'em. From what I've read the unstructred rounds have a $75,000 per player 'cap', so the 'most' a player could lose is $75,000 on that hand.

4-5 hands loser in one of those rounds ought to add up to around 300K I'd guess.

[mcb]

It's a 100,000 cap. Can someone link williams blog?

[Yuv]

This proves that Phil Ivey is a brilliant poker player, and very poor business man. A braclet is worth a hell of alot more money to an already famous, young, popular poker star than whatever he can make playing Doyle and Chip.

I'm obviously only guessing, but Daniel Negreanu's poker related deals (Wynn, Stacked, etc) are probably worth more than a month at the big game. If we assume that he's not the biggest winner in that game (most poker players point to Chip Reese as the biggest winner in the big game), he's just making a bad decision here.

If Ivey goes on a tear at the WSOP, winning one or two televised events, he'll earn a shitload of money, and I'm not talking about the prize money.

The biggest money is in endorsement deals, sponsor, commercials, advertising campaigns, etc. Poker is coming out of it shell, the biggest explosion has yet to come.

The Doyle group are a dying breed of brilliant, old school players, who missed the media franzy bus. Ivey, for some reason, is just refusing to get on it.

[cwsiggy]

[ QUOTE ]
The Doyle group are a dying breed of brilliant, old school players, who missed the media franzy bus. Ivey, for some reason, is just refusing to get on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now this is just plain silly. Ivey is an active member/"owner" of Full Tilt. Eventually, if all goes well with FTP, he will make as much from end of year shareholder distributions or share appreciation as he does playing. poker.

[1p0kerb0y]

Phil has already made it pretty clear that he's not interested in selling himself in endorsements other than Full Tilt. Why does this have to mean that he is a very poor business man?

[TomHimself]

[ QUOTE ]
This proves that Phil Ivey is a brilliant poker player, and very poor business man. A braclet is worth a hell of alot more money to an already famous, young, popular poker star than whatever he can make playing Doyle and Chip.

I'm obviously only guessing, but Daniel Negreanu's poker related deals (Wynn, Stacked, etc) are probably worth more than a month at the big game. If we assume that he's not the biggest winner in that game (most poker players point to Chip Reese as the biggest winner in the big game), he's just making a bad decision here.

If Ivey goes on a tear at the WSOP, winning one or two televised events, he'll earn a shitload of money, and I'm not talking about the prize money.

The biggest money is in endorsement deals, sponsor, commercials, advertising campaigns, etc. Poker is coming out of it shell, the biggest explosion has yet to come.

The Doyle group are a dying breed of brilliant, old school players, who missed the media franzy bus. Ivey, for some reason, is just refusing to get on it.

[/ QUOTE ]ivey can make more than daniel in one week than wat daniel makes in a year probaly. and also ivey isn;t very marketable, he is happy with his deal with FTP FTP

[Yuv]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This proves that Phil Ivey is a brilliant poker player, and very poor business man. A braclet is worth a hell of alot more money to an already famous, young, popular poker star than whatever he can make playing Doyle and Chip.

I'm obviously only guessing, but Daniel Negreanu's poker related deals (Wynn, Stacked, etc) are probably worth more than a month at the big game. If we assume that he's not the biggest winner in that game (most poker players point to Chip Reese as the biggest winner in the big game), he's just making a bad decision here.

If Ivey goes on a tear at the WSOP, winning one or two televised events, he'll earn a shitload of money, and I'm not talking about the prize money.

The biggest money is in endorsement deals, sponsor, commercials, advertising campaigns, etc. Poker is coming out of it shell, the biggest explosion has yet to come.

The Doyle group are a dying breed of brilliant, old school players, who missed the media franzy bus. Ivey, for some reason, is just refusing to get on it.

[/ QUOTE ]ivey can make more than daniel in one week than wat daniel makes in a year probaly. and also ivey isn;t very marketable, he is happy with his deal with FTP FTP

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he can't. That's absurd.

The first poker superstar (there isn't one yet, Negreanu might get close, not yet) will be making tens of millions a year before he even step to the table.

Yevgeni Kafelnikov, who you guys tagged as a "b-class celebrity" has made more in tennis winnings and endorsement deals than any poker player alive.

You guys live in a fantasy world, if you think Ivey can make more money in the big game than in the global market.

That's why he's a bad business man. I'm in no way trying to disrespect his poker game, I believe he's the best play in the world when you combine all around cash and tournament play.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Phil has already made it pretty clear that he's not interested in selling himself in endorsements other than Full Tilt. Why does this have to mean that he is a very poor business man?

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. I'm sure his deal with Full Tilt is really good. He makes plenty with that and through poker so he doesn't have to make himself look like an idiot...

http://www.xybertours.com/poker/site/sa500ph115.jpg

[Yuv]

[ QUOTE ]
Phil has already made it pretty clear that he's not interested in selling himself in endorsements other than Full Tilt. Why does this have to mean that he is a very poor business man?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he's not interested in selling himself. That makes him an island of sanity in the capitalist hell hole we live in, it also makes him a noble man, it might even make him a better poker player, but it sure does make him a bad business man. The answer is in the question. Business-wise, that's a poor decision.

[TomHimself]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This proves that Phil Ivey is a brilliant poker player, and very poor business man. A braclet is worth a hell of alot more money to an already famous, young, popular poker star than whatever he can make playing Doyle and Chip.

I'm obviously only guessing, but Daniel Negreanu's poker related deals (Wynn, Stacked, etc) are probably worth more than a month at the big game. If we assume that he's not the biggest winner in that game (most poker players point to Chip Reese as the biggest winner in the big game), he's just making a bad decision here.

If Ivey goes on a tear at the WSOP, winning one or two televised events, he'll earn a shitload of money, and I'm not talking about the prize money.

The biggest money is in endorsement deals, sponsor, commercials, advertising campaigns, etc. Poker is coming out of it shell, the biggest explosion has yet to come.

The Doyle group are a dying breed of brilliant, old school players, who missed the media franzy bus. Ivey, for some reason, is just refusing to get on it.

[/ QUOTE ]ivey can make more than daniel in one week than wat daniel makes in a year probaly. and also ivey isn;t very marketable, he is happy with his deal with FTP FTP

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he can't. That's absurd.

The first poker superstar (there isn't one yet, Negreanu might get close, not yet) will be making tens of millions a year before he even step to the table.

Yevgeni Kafelnikov, who you guys tagged as a "b-class celebrity" has made more in tennis winnings and endorsement deals than any poker player alive.

You guys live in a fantasy world, if you think Ivey can make more money in the big game than in the global market.

That's why he's a bad business man. I'm in no way trying to disrespect his poker game, I believe he's the best play in the world when you combine all around cash and tournament play.

[/ QUOTE ]phil can definately make more playing poker, doesn;t mean hes a bad business man, im sure he has some sort of savings account or something to fall back on. I dont think he has to have his hands in every business and endorsement to be a goood business man

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
This proves that Phil Ivey is a brilliant poker player, and very poor business man. A braclet is worth a hell of alot more money to an already famous, young, popular poker star than whatever he can make playing Doyle and Chip.

I'm obviously only guessing, but Daniel Negreanu's poker related deals (Wynn, Stacked, etc) are probably worth more than a month at the big game. If we assume that he's not the biggest winner in that game (most poker players point to Chip Reese as the biggest winner in the big game), he's just making a bad decision here.

If Ivey goes on a tear at the WSOP, winning one or two televised events, he'll earn a shitload of money, and I'm not talking about the prize money.

The biggest money is in endorsement deals, sponsor, commercials, advertising campaigns, etc. Poker is coming out of it shell, the biggest explosion has yet to come.

The Doyle group are a dying breed of brilliant, old school players, who missed the media franzy bus. Ivey, for some reason, is just refusing to get on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of what you said here is incorrect.

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This proves that Phil Ivey is a brilliant poker player, and very poor business man. A braclet is worth a hell of alot more money to an already famous, young, popular poker star than whatever he can make playing Doyle and Chip.

I'm obviously only guessing, but Daniel Negreanu's poker related deals (Wynn, Stacked, etc) are probably worth more than a month at the big game. If we assume that he's not the biggest winner in that game (most poker players point to Chip Reese as the biggest winner in the big game), he's just making a bad decision here.

If Ivey goes on a tear at the WSOP, winning one or two televised events, he'll earn a shitload of money, and I'm not talking about the prize money.

The biggest money is in endorsement deals, sponsor, commercials, advertising campaigns, etc. Poker is coming out of it shell, the biggest explosion has yet to come.

The Doyle group are a dying breed of brilliant, old school players, who missed the media franzy bus. Ivey, for some reason, is just refusing to get on it.

[/ QUOTE ]ivey can make more than daniel in one week than wat daniel makes in a year probaly. and also ivey isn;t very marketable, he is happy with his deal with FTP FTP

[/ QUOTE ]

Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. This forum is fun. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[TomHimself]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This proves that Phil Ivey is a brilliant poker player, and very poor business man. A braclet is worth a hell of alot more money to an already famous, young, popular poker star than whatever he can make playing Doyle and Chip.

I'm obviously only guessing, but Daniel Negreanu's poker related deals (Wynn, Stacked, etc) are probably worth more than a month at the big game. If we assume that he's not the biggest winner in that game (most poker players point to Chip Reese as the biggest winner in the big game), he's just making a bad decision here.

If Ivey goes on a tear at the WSOP, winning one or two televised events, he'll earn a shitload of money, and I'm not talking about the prize money.

The biggest money is in endorsement deals, sponsor, commercials, advertising campaigns, etc. Poker is coming out of it shell, the biggest explosion has yet to come.

The Doyle group are a dying breed of brilliant, old school players, who missed the media franzy bus. Ivey, for some reason, is just refusing to get on it.

[/ QUOTE ]ivey can make more than daniel in one week than wat daniel makes in a year probaly. and also ivey isn;t very marketable, he is happy with his deal with FTP FTP

[/ QUOTE ]

Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. This forum is fun. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]maybe a week is a bit of a exaggeration but i think its possible in a month maybe

[Yuv]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This proves that Phil Ivey is a brilliant poker player, and very poor business man. A braclet is worth a hell of alot more money to an already famous, young, popular poker star than whatever he can make playing Doyle and Chip.

I'm obviously only guessing, but Daniel Negreanu's poker related deals (Wynn, Stacked, etc) are probably worth more than a month at the big game. If we assume that he's not the biggest winner in that game (most poker players point to Chip Reese as the biggest winner in the big game), he's just making a bad decision here.

If Ivey goes on a tear at the WSOP, winning one or two televised events, he'll earn a shitload of money, and I'm not talking about the prize money.

The biggest money is in endorsement deals, sponsor, commercials, advertising campaigns, etc. Poker is coming out of it shell, the biggest explosion has yet to come.

The Doyle group are a dying breed of brilliant, old school players, who missed the media franzy bus. Ivey, for some reason, is just refusing to get on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of what you said here is incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

You must have been captain of the debate team at your community college. Well argued.

[CDSNUTSINYAMOUTH]

Phil's not a bad businessman, it's more he doesn't want to be a business man. In danny negro's blog..he talks about running into phil ivey at the restaurant..and phil goes to him.."Danny you don't play poker no more...you're a businessman now." While for Phil, he just plays poker he doesn't care about the fame and endorsements really. He usually denies interviews and isn't all about marketing himself with his own chips and books etc. I do think he is the most marketable poker player because i really don't know anyone who doesn't think he's awesome. The overall consensus among a lot of poker fans is that this guy is the [censored]. He is pretty much the Tiger Woods of poker. When he plays poker he just seems cool playing it.

[SoftcoreRevolt]

We have heard from Barry Greenstein that he feels he makes far more playing high stakes cash games than the Hellmuths of the world make from endorsements, so while there is the possibility that in the future endorsements may be worth more than cash game winnings, why take the chance when you can win a lot of money now?

[Moonsugar]

You don't think the fact that Barry can never get many endorsements has anything to do with this comment?

[TomHimself]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't think the fact that Barry can never get many endorsements has anything to do with this comment?

[/ QUOTE ]i think barryg can some deals esp. as he is known as robin hood

[Adjective]

[ QUOTE ]
The first poker superstar

[/ QUOTE ]

What? Superstar? It's about playing poker, not being a celebrity. Either way he's not very entertaining

[realwtf]

[ QUOTE ]
Phil's not a bad businessman, it's more he doesn't want to be a business man. In danny negro's blog..he talks about running into phil ivey at the restaurant..and phil goes to him.."Danny you don't play poker no more...you're a businessman now." While for Phil, he just plays poker he doesn't care about the fame and endorsements really. He usually denies interviews and isn't all about marketing himself with his own chips and books etc. I do think he is the most marketable poker player because i really don't know anyone who doesn't think he's awesome. The overall consensus among a lot of poker fans is that this guy is the [censored]. He is pretty much the Tiger Woods of poker. When he plays poker he just seems cool playing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can he be the Tiger Woods of poker without Nike endorsing him?