Simple flop peel..

[krishanleong]

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.20 BB

Villian is 32/8/1.5/33 over 2373. If a flop peel good or bad. Should I just be folding the flop in these spots?

Krishan

[BlueBear]

Looks good against a passive player. (PFR=8% is passive IMO). Against anybody more aggressive, I'm raising the flop here.

[PokerBob]

If his pfr is only 8, I think his range has you in a world of hurt here. That said, I probably play it the same, but I don't think I like it.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks good against a passive player. (PFR=8% is passive IMO). Against anybody more aggressive, I'm raising the flop here.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he is passive, what is he 3-betting from the BB that we can feel good about? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks good against a passive player. (PFR=8% is passive IMO). Against anybody more aggressive, I'm raising the flop here.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the point of raising the flop against anyone in this spot?

Krishan

[MoDOH]

It´s fine. As long as you don´t always peel one off in these situations.
You are probably drawing to 3 outs but since you have position on him it´s ok to peel one off here from time to time.
You have over 2000 hands on this guy too. so you need to have a history playing eachother right? Against some people I know that they will bet overs on the flop HU but not the turn. So peeling one off against these types are definitely +EV.

[BlueBear]

For a free card (possibly a cheap showdown), to better define the situation (if I get 3 bet, now I'm in trouble), against a very aggressive player, it may even be for value. But then again, I'm been making these raises heads-up all the time and am unconsciously leaking money here.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
For a free card (possibly a cheap showdown), to better define the situation (if I get 3 bet, now I'm in trouble), against a very aggressive player, it may even be for value. But then again, I'm been making these raises heads-up all the time and am unconsciously leaking money here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow a free card. How many out do I have here? Defining the situation is crap. It's another way of saying raise for information. Raise for value, did you read the pt numbers I gave?

Krishan

[WarBus]

What percentage of the time do you hit an A or J on the turn, end up going to a showdown and still losing? I think this flop peel costs many people (myself included) more money than we realize.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
It´s fine. As long as you don´t always peel one off in these situations.


[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't make any sense. The flop call is either +EV, or -EV. There is no "it's fine as long as you don't do it always."

IMO it is -EV because we way more often than not have only 3 outs, and sometimes we have no outs. Folding the flop is the best course of action here.

Surf

[sam h]

Just fold the flop and move on. I don't think TT is even in his range with a PFR of 8. Not only do you only have three outs, you don't know which ones are good and so you are not well positioned to take advantage if you hit.

[Alobar]

someone pretty smart once told me, if you arent confident enough in your hand to raise the turn if either of your overcards hit, then don't peel the flop.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
someone pretty smart once told me, if you arent confident enough in your hand to raise the turn if either of your overcards hit, then don't peel the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems good. I've been trying to add more weak-tight into my game. I'm adding this one in.

Krishan

[Jeff W]

Just fold the flop against this opponent. You're lucky if he has TT/99. Every other hand he has dominates you.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
someone pretty smart once told me, if you arent confident enough in your hand to raise the turn if either of your overcards hit, then don't peel the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

too late to edit, but I wanted to clarify that this was in a HU spot like this, where the pot size is roughly what this one is.

[Drontier]

what would ur play be if hero had AK?

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
what would ur play be if hero had AK?

[/ QUOTE ]

AK should be played the way hero played it here, against this particular opponent IMO.

Surf

[Alexthegreat]

[ QUOTE ]


Wow a free card. How many out do I have here? Defining the situation is crap. It's another way of saying raise for information. Raise for value, did you read the pt numbers I gave?

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]


I think you are answering your own question...Fold the flop

[StellarWind]

8% PFR over large sample = fold.

To answer another poster, the game theory reason you would sometimes peel a card with slightly inadequate implied odds is to establish a reason for Villain to continue his bluffs and semibluffs onto the flop so your good hands can raise. Otherwise with this type of no-draw flop you could fall into a pattern where you only call the flop with showdown hands. That makes it too easy for Villain to bet all flops but always check the turn unless he has a good hand.

The EV perspective is that you are not really losing money by calling because if your opponent plays properly he will give you an occasional free card instead of always betting you off your unimproved hands on the turn. If he always bets you'll lose money on these loose calls but you'll more than make it back with your good hands. If he checks the turn too much you do less well with your good hands but you still end up ahead because you get too many free cards.

If you knew what mistake he liked to make you could do even better by adjusting the number of loose calls to punish his mistake. Against people who bet the turn too much you avoid loose calls completely. Against those who check too much you call the flop with additional hands.

As always, instead of playing randomly, you should make the extra calls with the very best of the hands you would otherwise fold. But AJo is too weak to consider such a play in this situation. The question here is how to play AQ.