River 2nd nuts, how many bets to go? live 10/20

[DeathDonkey]

Live 10/20 full kill mediocre game but I'm killing it up 800 by running it over. UTG is on my immediate right and I've been picking on him alot and he is pretty fed up with me I can tell. He is too loose and pretty passive but randomly does tricky stuff and I can tell he thinks he is good and tricky.

So UTG limps and I limp next with Q /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif, folded to the BB who checks.

Flop is A /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif BB checks, UTG bets, I call, BB calls. UTG would bet with alot here in my estimation because he thinks he might be able to pick up this small pot. Maybe I should have raised him right here?

Turn comes the interesting T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif BB checks, UTG bets, and now I raise. I raise because I have a million outs if I'm behind in my estimation and I've been doing this to him alot and he has been folding alot when I do it. BB folds but UTG calls.

River is 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif and he leads into me and says "you didn't see that coming did you?" I pause a second and raise and he 3 bets quickly. Should I 4 bet? How many should I go here?

Thanks,
DeathDonkey

[Evan]

I'd raise the flop.

4 bet the river given the way it played out. I don't think he says that with the nuts.

[toss]

Looks towards him in the same terrifying manner as Lou Diamond Phillips in his WPT skit and in the cheesiest most painful way say "I'm all-in. Are you?"

[aK13]

I would 4bet it, and I'd probably wimp out and stop there. I think he's bluffing or rivered Aces-up thinking they are good more often than he holds the nuts given your read.

[Bill C]

I'd raise the flop, for sure, as a value bet, and maybe in part to protect. Plus, it might change the way the hand plays out on later streets.

I'm not so sure about the river. The way he has bet is compatible with KcXc, and his comment on the end was kind of goofy; not sure what to make of that, but it sounds like you know the guy, so how far you go may be purely read-dependent.
If it were up to me, and no reads possible, I'd 4-bet, but without the absolute nuts that'd be it for me.

bill c

[gaming_mouse]

4-bet and call a 5-bet.

[rmarotti]

[ QUOTE ]
4-bet and fold to a 5-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[DeathDonkey]

I agree but of course I couldn't. I 4 bet, he insta 5 bet and showed me K /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif.

Glad I'm not the only one who would have lost that much, but sad to be on the wrong end of that.

-DeathDonkey