K4 suited in MP2

[dozer]

Button is a TAG, the blinds and limpers are loose.


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

<font color="green"> The converter screwed up, the poster checked and then folded for one more when button raised. </font>

Flop: (13 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

River: (10.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

I think pre-flop is ok with 2 loose limpers and a poster.

I think I played this hand too weak. Is it standard to bet the flop and river with this marginal hand?

[wrto4556]

fold before the flop. K4s might work on the button, but not in MP2.

I thinkn you should lead into the button on the flop.

[thirddan]

i would fold this preflop, put me on the button and i'll limp, but with two people left to act i think its a fold...

flop and turn i like...but i think there is some value in betting the river, a hand like QJ or ATd will call...

[wrto4556]

I agree about the river, but shouldnt we not give free cards on the flop. Betting into the PFR might get him to raise and fold out gut shots. He probably raises AJ and a few others we beat.

[thirddan]

meh, i suppose either betting or checking the flop is ok, but even if PFR raises everyone is still getting 8-1 on a call, and the more callers the better odds everyone else gets...i suppose the only real coup we can get is if the PFR raises (with an hand we beat) and knocks out a hand like K9/KT...

[ihardlyknowher]

[ QUOTE ]
K4 suited in MP2

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't even read the hand, but fold preflop. IMO there are no circumstances where this hand is playable in MP2.

[dozer]

yea, I definately need to tighten up pre-flop.

I used to have a vpip 16 playing .50 1. and needed to loosen up more, didn't even realize I was too loose until I posted this hand. I thought this pre-flop call was normal. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Quote from Ray Zee's article Different stages in a players life:

<font color="blue">"This is the advanced stage of a poker player's career. Now the cat is out of the bag. He wins more often and gets what he believes is the right feel for the game. Great plays come about by pushing marginal hands and making fantastic calls on the end through his ability to read hands. Poker is fun played this way. But no longer is the tight player inside the body. All hands start to look like they have value, and with skillful manipulation winning the pot is easy. He begins to believe that he can play bad hands for profit where in reality he can't. The player has taken a big step backward and a long leap forwards at the same time. The tight style needed is gone and a new imaginative style is born and he becomes loose aggressive. Unfortunately for him, if he gets too loose he loses all his money and may never recover. But for those that are moving up the ladder, this is the last leap before the finishing stage. "</font>

[Notorious G.O.B.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
K4 suited in MP2

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't even read the hand, but fold preflop. IMO there are no circumstances where this hand is playable in MP2.

[/ QUOTE ]
What if no one's raised a pot in the past month, and the button is playing 80% of his hands? His limp may be a mistake, but I don't think it's a serious one by any means. If the other players play pretty bad, I think it's reasonable.

[toss]

What about K5 or K6s suited?

[thirddan]

i don't play Kxs after limpers until its K8/9s from outside of the CO/button (stealing is obviously different)...i dont really see much different between K4 and K7 since your kicker still sucks and you don't have any straight potential...

[toss]

I admit the value may be thin, but to say that you never will play it...

[thirddan]

blah blah, semantics, blah, blah...:)

my meaning was that i feel its almost never profitable to play Kxs x&lt;8/9 from outside of steal position, i go lower when i steal from CO/button...i don't feel that there is difference between K4 and K6 in this regard...

[toss]

Ah I see. I was just trying to see where you guys draw the line and cajole you into becoming loosies. /images/graemlins/smile.gif