Falling in love

[DannyP]

As a beginner I wonder if I am falling in love with too many hands, not reading well, or just plain unlucky.

Online $5/$10 HE, with what appears to be typical weak/passive players. I'm UTG with K /forums/images/icons/spade.gif A /forums/images/icons/heart.gif , I raise, its folded around to the 9 seat (is that called the cutoff?)who calls, button calls, SB and BB fold.

Flop is K /forums/images/icons/club.gif K /forums/images/icons/heart.gif Q /forums/images/icons/club.gif ; Bet; call; button folds
Turn 7 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif Bet; call
River 4 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif Bet, raise....till its capped.

He shows 4/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/club.gif

I put him on a set of Qs at best, and more likely 2 pair. At what point should I have backed off? This isn't atypical...at least a couple of times a session I find myself carrying the betting, losing to hands that seemingly shouldnt be there. Do you just back off after the first river raise, figuring anything could be out there?

[balt999]

BAD LUCK...plain and simple...you played the hand fine. This is just a case of a bad player fishing you out of a pot...I hope this player stayed at your table a long time, you'll make money off this kind of player in the long run.

[pudley4]

There's nothing you could have done to win this hand. Your opponent decided he was going to the river, so the only thing you can do is make him pay to suck out on you. I think you played it fine until the river - however, you might want to consider just calling his raise on the river. If he's truly "weak/passive", he's probably not going to raise you on the river without a full house.

Also, you said "I put him on a set of Qs at best, and more likely 2 pair. " Notice that if he did have a set of Q's, he'd really have a full house, and he'd have you beaten the whole way.

So many players play passively that you will often find yourself carrying the betting when you don't have the best hand. However, just because it happens once in a while, it doesn't mean you should stop betting. You'll still win the most by being aggressive.

[DannyP]

Thanks for the replies so far. Pudley, I meant another set of Ks rather than Qs. If he had pocket Qs and a full house I would expect more aggressive betting even from a weak/ passive player, no? With a K and weak kicker I can see him just calling, although that is awfully weak too.

[bernie]

if he had 2 pair, wouldnt you have heard from him earlier?

even a FH someone usually gets excited by the turn and raises....but look at it this way...

depending on your image, the way your playing this hand, he can figure your not folding the river. what could he be raising with here....many times, hes putting you on AK or AQ...so i might 3 bet or just call. some will do this with a lesser kicker than yours...again, know your players...it will help in the decision.

if someone calls that far with 44, let em catch at times, who cares? you want them in the game playing that way. look at it longrunwise....remember the times he called only to fold to the river bet or at showdown after you show your trips and you dont see his hand? guess what he was folding...

on this hand, you made money on the flop and turn. he isnt making up for the amount he paid for hitting his hand...even though he got 4 bets out of you on the river...he needed to make up about 16 bets in addition to that for that call. see how costly his 'win' was? he was 12 bets short.

brief explanation.....call on the turn with 2 outs...22-1..pot odds call on turn bet...about 5.5-1. 22-6(rounded up) is 16BB to recoup for this call. especially if he knows you have even any overpair. even 55.

though on a capped river, SOMETIMES you can fold. depending on youre read ...if hes a chaser that would only cap with no less than a FH here....many trip players youd hear about on the turn as theyd be testing their kickers.

just some ideas...

b

[rigoletto]

I think there is some confusion about terminology here. The term 'set' is usually used when you have a pocket pair matching a third card on the flop for three of a kind. What you had is usually called 'trips': a pair on the board where you hold a matching card for three of a kind.