Terrorists are afraid of shotguns? Military developed new weapon.

[wacki]

Linky (http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_AA12,,00.html)

It is a well-known fact that terrorists killing our troops in Iraq are not afraid of the M4 and its 5.56mm bullet -- but they are terrified of shotguns. Enter the AA-12. No felt recoil, high explosive rounds, gas-forged and heat-treated, this shotgun may give terrorists a run for their money.


Is this true? Are they really afraid of shotguns and not afraid of M4s? That doesn't seem right.

Can any vets here confirm the shotgun fear? Jake?

On a side note the gun in this link is bad ass. No recoil and armor piercing explosive shells.

http://images.military.com/pics/SoldierTech_AA12-4.jpg

[Blarg]

Well, I've often read cops saying that the bigger the bore of the barrel, the more likely it seems to stop crooks in their tracks. And supposedly that's one of the reasons shotguns are so good for home defense -- you're less likely to have to fire them.

I've also read prisoners saying they'll take a risk charging a small calibre gun, which seems to confirm that bit from the cops. Guess they figure sometimes you miss, sometimes not much damage is done, and chances are that whatever happens you'll like it better than going to prison? Dunno, but I can see charging a smaller bore gun being a lot more tempting.

[Hiding]

I agree, someone charging at a shotgun is gonna get popped, to easy to hit something.

[touchfaith]

Just a guess, but I would imagine that with limited access to medical attention, you would rather have a high-powered bullet with a chance of going in-and-out hit you, rather then a whole shitload pellets that you'll never get out...kill you. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Jules22]

i want one right now haha.looks sweet

[HtotheNootch]

Makes a lot of sense. Most encounters are at close range. The M4 throws (roughly) a .22, OO buckshot is .32. At close range a shotgun has the advantage by thowing multiple projectiles, and doing more damage.

If you gave me the choice of one, and only one, weapon for urban warfare I'd go with a 12-gauge.

[PeeWeeH]

Yeah, these guys will gladly blow themselves into little pieces in the hope of killing a few Americans, but they're scared of a high bore rifle. Want to end the insurgency? Grab grandpa's shotgun.

peewee

[jakethebake]

I don't know anything about which they'd "fear" more. But these are people that blow themselves up to accomplish what they want so....

The M4 is basically the M16 with the shorter barrel & collapsing stock right? Anyway, the M16 sucked in the desert. It's a piece of crap in that environment, and has to be kept extremely clean and free of sand to work. The plus is that the M16 is far more accurate at a distance than AKs and in the desert, that's not a bad thing. The only thing I ever saw anyone use a shotgun for was one unit using them to clear ratholes as they're pretty ideal down in the tunnels. But the lack of range is a problem in a lot of areas, not to mention reload speed, fewer rounds, etc.

Edit: Also, the 5.56mm round is small as mentioned, but it's designed to bounce around inside you and do a lot of damage. You'd be surprised.

[-Skeme-]

People fear shotguns more than other guns because the sound of it cocking is terrifying. CHA-CHICK.

[Blarg]

And also because you know if the pellets are coming out in a two foot wide spread, you're almost certainly getting hit with at least a few of them, whereas a from a regular gun could miss you or just graze you, or if it hits you, hit nothing vital. With a bunch of pellets, something's going to hit you for sure, and chances are pretty good that real damage will be done. And if you take it on full blast, it might cut you in half. Althought it can happen, people probably don't visualize a pistol bullet cutting off an arm or scooping out their whole abdomen.

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
And also because you know if the pellets are coming out in a two foot wide spread,

[/ QUOTE ]

You've never fired a shotgun at close range have you?

Under 15 feet the shot charge comes out in about a 2 inch wad.It's very easy to miss at close range.

There used to be a 3 gun match in California called the Steel challenge. The shotgun event was 5 reactive (falling) steel targets at ranges from 10 to 30 feet. The targets were 12 inches in diameter. You would be stunned by how many shooters would miss those targets.

BTW #4 Buckshot makes the best conventional anti-personel round. Couple that with the old Winchester 1897 or model 12 riot guns where you could just hold the trigger down and pump that sucker and it was a great trench/basment/cave cleaner.

[Blarg]

We're talking about intimidation value, not shot spread at any specific ranges. It's enough to conceive that more than one bullet is coming out, covering a broader area, for a shotgun to seem more intimidating, and like something you're less likely to walk away from getting shot with. There are guys who get hit with 9 mm bullets multiple times and walk away, but when you hear about someone getting shotgunned, you don't seem to hear as many survivor stories.

I've heard that a guy who is good with a pistol is very capable of better taking out multiple targets than a guy with a submachine gun or auto-fire weapon or shotgun. But a guy with a pistol is probably the least intimidating of the three.

I'm not suprised by anybody missing anything at any range. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Especially under pressure or combat conditions.

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
I've heard that a guy who is good with a pistol is very capable of better taking out multiple targets than a guy with a submachine gun or auto-fire weapon or shotgun. But a guy with a pistol is probably the least intimidating of the three.

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to win a lot of money with this bet. A good man with a pistol will beat a submachine gun evey time. A shotgun is a closer match.

[wacki]

Somehow, I thing the AA-12 will beat a pistol every time. No recoil, good sights, large mag.... How can you beat it?

[slamdunkpro]

It all comes down to the skill of the user.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
It all comes down to the skill of the user.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fine, given similar skill levels, the AA-12 will win every time IMO.

[Phat Mack]

It has always been my understanding that shotguns were prohibited by the Geneva Convention. In Nam, the only people I saw carrying them were dog handlers and chasers.

Personally, if I were working the graveyard shift at a 7-11, the last thing I would want to see would be a guy walking in with a shotgun.

[slamdunkpro]

I said in my earler post that between a pistol and a shotgun it was close. Depending on the scenario i would say you are correct 80% of the time.

BTW I actually met Max Atchisson and got to play with his prototype in 1985.