Letter I sent to The Bike

[turtlepig]

I've enjoyed your webcast 'Live at the Bike' a few times and made it a point to tune in to last night's 10,000 freezeout because it's such a compelling contest. The poker was a mixed bag and perhaps not of the highest level, but the webcast was completely sabotaged by the senior of the two announcers.

The younger guy who does the show all the time is pretty earnest and has the right attitude for the job, but Denny (?) was not only sexually rude, but went out of his way to diminish and undermine the poker being played. Is that the image the Bike wants to portray - that the house thinks high-stakes poker that people play with their own money is a waste of its time, and that women can expect rude comments about whether they enjoy 69?

That comment was truly beyond belief! Understand me, I like to wonder about pretty women too. Who doesn't? I think all KINDS of things - to MYSELF. But if anyone at the Bike thinks that kind of talk from their representative is good for the game or their image I'd like to hear it.

The way the thing ended is a disgrace, and again, your guy Denny was all over the situation. If players chop they chop - fair enough. But is it really the house's place to encourage it? They were talking as if playing on would be futile - a waste of everyone's time. Come to the Bicycle everybody - play a while, and when we get tired you can all quit! The house actually raised the blinds ahead of schedule without consulting the players! Excuse me, but if I were the short stack in that situation you can believe I would have something to say about it considering the ONE THOUSAND DOLLAR BUY IN. But the short stack was the girl they had been making fun of all night, and she said nothing when they did that to her. They raced her off and then chopped. Great poker down at the Bike, brought to you by the guy who's apparently running the show!

Rob 'turtlepig' Hunt

[DemonDeac]

i liked it. they're offering their opinions of the play (which was terrible).

and Denny is the tournament director there i believe, a respected position. i dont think ur letter will do much.

[otnemem]

I didn't watch L@TB last night, so I'm only making these comments based on your post. It sounds like Denny said something relatively harmless, but you found it offensive and have decided to take it upon yourself to cover everyone else's ears. That's really annoying. It's people like you that are making censorship on cable televesion an ever more realistic possibility. If you don't want to listen, turn the sound off. As for the tournament proceedings - you weren't playing, so why are you complaining? If nobody playing cared enough to ensure that they could finish up, why should you?

[MicroBob]

I have yet to watch LATB.

If the comments made in the OP are at all accurate I think the commentators need to reconsider their approach.


As a former radio sports-broadcaster who has called literally thousands of games on the radio and on the internet (the 4 major sports) I can tell you that if I were to EVER make some sort of comment like that about women I would fully expect to be fired.

I would be appalled to hear anything like this in a sports broadcast.

Just because Howard Stern says outrageous stuff does NOT make it appropriate to be said in a sports-type broadcast (which poker qualifies as).

It's not about 'censorship' at all. It's just about etiquette and professionalism.

I am VERY MUCH opposed to most types of censorship in the media (including such things as the ban on radio/TV ads for tobacco and the DOJ's intimidation tactics to curb online-poker ads) but in a live sports-type broadcasts the commentators should be enthusiastic about the event they are covering WHILE still conducting themselves in a professional manner.



If there was encouragement to take a deal and an implication that they should be doing that (as well as raising the blinds prematurely) then I have lost a lot of respect for what LATB is trying to accomplish.

[Kevmath]

She wasn't raced off, she blinded herself out of the shootout. They were "making fun" of Yulette because she played way too tightly 4 handed. Here's some hands she decided not to play:
A6o (to A4o)
KTs (to two rags)
KQo (to QTo)
A3o (to KJo)
A9o (to two rags)
74o (with 2/3 of her chips in the pot)

Of course she didn't know what she was up against, but I'm sure people would push with worse hands in her situation.

Regarding your comments Denny made about women, see the thread on last night's show about the first part of the program, which was a complete waste of time for whatever exposure the Bike's hoping to get out of this on some hack ESPN show.

[BlackRain]

I watch the show all the time. I didn't happen to see this episode though. I think the commentators do a great job. They are being critical of the play. This is a good thing. If you don't agree with what they have to say, you can always post in the thread that Kevmath creates for every show here on 2+2, and they will comment on what you said live on the air.

The comments on women, I didn't see the show, I don't know.

[theredwave]

[ QUOTE ]

As a former radio sports-broadcaster who has called literally thousands of games on the radio and on the internet (the 4 major sports) I can tell you that if I were to EVER make some sort of comment like that about women I would fully expect to be fired.

[/ QUOTE ]

They were only criticizing her play, which was incredibly tight, and I felt neither commentator said anything out of line. They were only making observations about her play as I'm sure you would criticize errors made on the baseball field or unnecesary penalties made in football or hockey. I never heard them berating her play because she was a woman or making any chauvinistic remarks, and just because she is a woman doesn't mean she should be immune to criticism. I think both announcers have done a good job with the show and I will continue watching it.

[MicroBob]

Well...since I haven't seen it I obviously don't know.

But yes, I would make very critical remarks about various plays and decisions.
I've even had team management (or the university's athletic department) come to me when they think I've crossed the line by being overly-critical. If you call enough games and make enough criticisms it's bound to happen sooner or later.


Anyway, the hands she laid-down on a short-handed table were obviously excessively tight.

Mike sexton will be critical of a player as well, "Frankly Vince...I just don't understand this move. It's not a very good one."


But what was up with the '69' comments or whatever?

[Russ McGinley]

This is pretty much what happened:

She raised all-in and Moe had 69o and said (audibly) "I have your favorite hand", to which she replied "6-9?" Then he showed it and they both laughed. Denny said (If I recall) "She likes six-nine." Bart then snickered and I believe said something like "I'm not gonna touch that one." I don't recall anything else being said about it.

They raised the blinds to try and get the tournament done before their usual allotted time ran out to broadcast the show. If a player had a problem with it, they would have spoken up. Denny is the tournament director at The Bike, so he went out there to talk to the players in order to set up a fair deal and make sure everything went smoothly, because at the time it looked as though they were strug-a-ling to figure it out.

And as Kevin reiterated, Yulette made some pretty bone-headed folds and Bart was 100% right to chastise her play. I don't remember what Denny was saying about it, but I know for a fact that they are all friends and if Yulette has a serious issue with whatever was said by the announcers, she will talk to Bart and Denny and square things up.

If you (OP) wants to e-mail The Bike because something happened that you don't like, fine. Go wild. Otnemem said it best. The players didn't complain, so what exactly is the problem?

[turtlepig]

I certainly agree that her play was tight and their comments regarding her tight play were completeley appropriate. The only COMMENT I found offensive was Denny's sniggering suggestion that 6 9 was her favorite hand. Is it YOUR favorite hand?

Far more serious in my opinion was his total disregard for her in the decision to raise the blinds ahead of schedule, and then it was mostly Denny trying to engineer a chop as if the players would be doing everyone a favor. They have much better things to do at the Bike apparently, than deal out a string of hands for 10 grand. Too mundane for them!

I'm no prude, I just think the formal announcer should stay above that stuff and at least pretend to be interested in the poker.

Rob Hunt

[MicroBob]

This doesn't sound so bad.

The players themselves were the ones who brought it up.
If the announcers laugh at their general sillyness (with the pbp guy saying "I'm not going to touch that one") I think it's all fine and dandy.

Sounds to me like the announcers do a reasonable job and that the OP might be a bit off on this one.


Try calling a baseball game with a player named Ethan Faggett (pronounced Faggot).
What about everyone's favorite race-car driver, Dick Trickle?

[turtlepig]

As far as why I care, anyone posting here does so because they care. You DON'T care?

I never said anyone should be fired or taken off cable or the web or anything, and I'm sure Denny is an expert and an asset to the cardroom. But don't try to tell me he didn't know his decision put undue pressure on the short stack. You say she didn't complain and I should stay out of it. Maybe he KNEW she wouldn't say anything. Maybe he knew she would 'behave'. I still say it stinks.

Rob Hunt

[Kashie]

[ QUOTE ]
I certainly agree that her play was tight and their comments regarding her tight play were completeley appropriate. The only COMMENT I found offensive was Denny's sniggering suggestion that 6 9 was her favorite hand. Is it YOUR favorite hand?

Far more serious in my opinion was his total disregard for her in the decision to raise the blinds ahead of schedule, and then it was mostly Denny trying to engineer a chop as if the players would be doing everyone a favor. They have much better things to do at the Bike apparently, than deal out a string of hands for 10 grand. Too mundane for them!

I'm no prude, I just think the formal announcer should stay above that stuff and at least pretend to be interested in the poker.

Rob Hunt

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Turtle PIG!! heh

The FCC doesn't regulate internet shows.
Just like Howard Stern on Satellite Radio.
If you don't like it don't watch it.
We all enjoy the show, good taste is important , but try
entertaining a crowd for 4 hours.
This is poker not Opera!
The Jay Leno show is worse than Live@theBike.
Just turn off the sound.
BTW Turtle PIG is a weird name . I think I saw it on an internet porn site.
heh

[Kevmath]

It didn't help matters that there was softplaying of hands with Yulette until Denny came out to tell them to knock it off. Fatboy, the large stack, was the one who wasn't willing to make a deal. Hopefully this will be discussed on tonight's show, and surely will link to this thread when I start tonight's thread.

Kevin...

[MicroBob]

I'm not sure what I think about a tourney-director ALSO having the ability to look at all the players' hole-cards and make decisions about the tournament.


Would he have told anyone to 'knock it off' if he hadn't had access to all of the players live hole-cards? Probably not I suspect. Again, I'm not sure if this is good or bad though.

But any tourney-director with that much power (the ability to see their hole-cards) also needs to remember that some players don't play the same way he would and that some players just plain suck.

[Kashie]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what I think about a tourney-director ALSO having the ability to look at all the players' hole-cards and make decisions about the tournament.


Would he have told anyone to 'knock it off' if he hadn't had access to all of the players live hole-cards? Probably not I suspect. Again, I'm not sure if this is good or bad though.

But any tourney-director with that much power (the ability to see their hole-cards) also needs to remember that some players don't play the same way he would and that some players just plain suck.

[/ QUOTE ]



You guys are too critical.

And Turtle you have made 3 posts on 2+2 and all of them suck.
Where's your MAMA so I can write her a letter and report your nasty name.

/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Kevmath]

The 1k shootout was done as a cash game/tournament, but I agree with Bob that Denny shouldn't have his decision influenced by seeing the hole cards. I'm assuming they started this shootout around 9 (eastern) last night, and there were 30 minute levels. Other shootouts they've aired did finish within the 4 hour time frame, it's unfortunate that it didn't happen last night with 10k on the line.

Kevin...

[turtlepig]

> This is poker not Opera!
> Just turn off the sound.
> BTW Turtle PIG is a weird name . I think I saw
> it on an internet porn site.


Kool out Kashie Medley!

You're right about poker vs opera. In opera, the director can change whatever he wants. He can even cut the third act out of a 4 act play. In poker, the director should stick to the script.

I quit doing porno in the late seventies. Either you got a super 8 or it was the turtlepig that ran you out of your last SitnGo at Party.

Rob Hunt

[Kashie]

Kool out Kashie Medley!

You're right about poker vs opera. In opera, the director can change whatever he wants. He can even cut the third act out of a 4 act play. In poker, the director should stick to the script.

I quit doing porno in the late seventies. Either you got a super 8 or it was the turtlepig that ran you out of your last SitnGo at Party.

Rob Hunt

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok Now I remember. lol
Peace

[Kashie]

/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[wray]

I think the next time a NFL game is running long they should only have 3 quarters so the Sunday ngiht movie will start on time.

[ClaytonN]

Rob,

One of of the players at the table made the 'your favorite hand' comment, and she agreed. Denny simply re-iterated what happened on the tables.

In short, shut the hell up.

[turtlepig]

Clayton -

The 'favorite hand' comment was the least of it, so, in short - YOU shut the Hell up! But thanks for sharing with us Clay.

Rob

[ClaytonN]

Funny how you should go so far as to completely disregard my comment, but I would expect that from someone as misinformed as yourself.

Fact: Denny never made any illicit statements. He merely commented what was being said at the table. YOU mis-interpreted this information and went out of your way to tarnish Denny's image.

Worse yet, when YOU get called on it, you say the issue at hand was "the least of it", when it fact it encompassed half of your argument.

So, as I will say again, please shut the hell up. Propoganda from the lesser informed is not welcomed at these forums.

[hectorjelly]

I watched last nights episode and I cant see what you could be offended over. As another poster mentioned all the commentators did was repeat a comment that was made at the table, and even that was fairly benign. The commentators did get exasperated at some of the folds but I cant see why that might offend you.

[rlr]

Additionally this is the same show that has Playboy Playmates and bombshell girls on. It's not like they play great poker either.

[BlackRain]

OP is a sensitive soul. Let him get it all out.

[rlr]

Sorry. I apologize for pointing that out.

[-Skeme-]

[ QUOTE ]
The only COMMENT I found offensive was Denny's sniggering suggestion that 6 9 was her favorite hand. Is it YOUR favorite hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but it was obviously her's if she guessed it before the guy with 69o tabled it. So what's the big problem?