Argument - 2 people against 1 dog

[Chaostracize]

My friend and I are having a disagreement.

He comes into the house today and says that he and his other friend have decided that pitted against a dog they could beat it (kill it/maim it/whatever). Any dog in the world.

They are both 21 and with an athletic build, but by not means are they large guys.

Against a trained attack dog or cop dog I think they simply have no chance but my friend believes the opposite, that is they would be able to either kick it to death while it's attached to one guy or get it in some kind of strangle hold. He says the dog has one weapon - it's mouth. If worse came to worse and it got ahold of one of their arms then dogs have no other weapon available to them. And dogs are trained to bite and not let up. The guys' primary objective is to keep their necks out of reach of the dog.

Against your average house pet I agreed with him that he would be able to take it on, were it to adapt some sort of bloodlust, but any kind of trained dog would just absolutely ruin them, and I'm saying it would ruin them in a time span of less than 5 minutes.

[STLantny]

I think a single person should be able to take an attack dog down? We out-weigh most dogs by about 100lbs, a solid punch is going to land a 80lb german shepard on the groud cold.

[Chaostracize]

We both agree this is thoroughly wrong.

Unless you're Mike Tyson.

[partygirluk]

[ QUOTE ]
We both agree this is thoroughly wrong.

Unless you're Mike Tyson.

[/ QUOTE ]

A single punch to the chin would surely KO a dog. But landing the punch cleanly would be very very difficult.

[lucas9000]

[ QUOTE ]
a solid punch is going to land a 80lb german shepard on the groud cold.

[/ QUOTE ]

go try it, see what happens.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

I agree. A well-trained attack dog would destroy them. Also, I have my doubts for them against a large dog like an irish wolf hound or even a medium-sized dog like a boxer, should it be ill-tempered. An 80-90 pound boxer is quite a strong animal. It's all muscle and it's got one helluva bite.

His argument for the dog getting a hold of one guy and the other guy beat the hell out of it doesn't work very well. You're pretty much going to be incapacitated, or at least severely injured and missing the use of an arm or a leg if one of these dogs does get a hold of you. Now all of a sudden, it's one-on-one and you're toast.

Should the dog be both ill-tempered and have a laser attached to its nose, your friends would have zero chance.

[jakethebake]

The firt time he goes to bite you, you offer him your hand. Shove your hand in his mouth as far as your can. Everytime he loosens to get a better bite, you shove it further in until you choke him out.

[Chaostracize]

True. Another part of my argument is that these dogs are trained to withstand multiple bullet wounds just to take somebody out. If they can withstand that I think they can withstand a lot of what a regular human can dish out.

[lucas9000]

i think 2 guys could do it. while the dog is latched onto one guy, the other kicks the [censored] out of the dog, stomping its skull if the opportunity presents itself. the "free" guy could certainly break some of the dog's ribs real quick, and greater damage would soon follow.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
The firt time he goes to bite you, you offer him your hand. Shove your hand in his mouth as far as your can. Everytime he loosens to get a better bite, you shove it further in until you choke him out.

[/ QUOTE ]
No! You rip its tongue out!

[offTopic]

[ QUOTE ]

Should the dog be both ill-tempered and have a laser attached to its nose, your friends would have zero chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF? The nose is too close to the business end of the dog. There should be a rotating laser turret on the tail.

[lucas9000]

[ QUOTE ]
True. Another part of my argument is that these dogs are trained to withstand multiple bullet wounds just to take somebody out. If they can withstand that I think they can withstand a lot of what a regular human can dish out.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you think their training makes them immune to bullets or something? no amount of training will help a dog whose spine has been shattered by a bullet, or whose skull has been crushed by a foot.

[Chaostracize]

My friend says it's not one-on-one unless he kills you. It's going to hurt like hell but he's latching on and he won't be moving. He would be completely vulnerable to the other guy.

[partygirluk]

1 guy v. an attack dog the canine is a clear favourite. 3 guys v. an attack dog the guys are the clear favourite. 2 guys is really close I think.

[Chaostracize]

I'm not talking about the times where you incapacitate him inasmuch the dog literally cannot move regardless of pain, I'm talking about the times when you are doing normal heavy damage and it is unaffected completely by the pain.

Humans can't do that. At least not the ones we're talking about.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
We both agree this is thoroughly wrong.

Unless you're Mike Tyson.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure biting the dog's ear off won't win the fight.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
My friend says it's not one-on-one unless he kills you. It's going to hurt like hell but he's latching on and he won't be moving. He would be completely vulnerable to the other guy.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure a well-trained attack dog, who's trained to fight people, wouldn't be so stupid. He'll let go if he needs to. Your friend's thinking of police dogs.

[kurosh]

Are you kidding? 1 average human over a 100lb trained attack dog any day. They jump, you kick them in the face. They latch on somewhere, you gouge out their eyes with your free hand or kick the [censored] out of them with your free leg.

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]
True. Another part of my argument is that these dogs are trained to withstand multiple bullet wounds just to take somebody out. If they can withstand that I think they can withstand a lot of what a regular human can dish out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just curious, how do they train their dogs to withstand multiple bullets wounds? Keep shooting them intil one miraculously survives, and then breed it?

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you kidding? 1 average human over a 100lb trained attack dog any day. They jump, you kick them in the face. They latch on somewhere, you gouge out their eyes with your free hand or kick the [censored] out of them with your free leg.

[/ QUOTE ]

And yet you would strangely take off in the other direction if one started chasing you.

[bronzepiglet]

[ QUOTE ]
No! You rip its tongue out!

[/ QUOTE ]

I love this.

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree. A well-trained attack dog would destroy them. Also, I have my doubts for them against a large dog like an irish wolf hound or even a medium-sized dog like a boxer, should it be ill-tempered. An 80-90 pound boxer is quite a strong animal. It's all muscle and it's got one helluva bite.

His argument for the dog getting a hold of one guy and the other guy beat the hell out of it doesn't work very well. You're pretty much going to be incapacitated, or at least severely injured and missing the use of an arm or a leg if one of these dogs does get a hold of you. Now all of a sudden, it's one-on-one and you're toast.

Should the dog be both ill-tempered and have a laser attached to its nose, your friends would have zero chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I think the dog being ill-tempered is a must.

I say the dog wins. It would realize it was fighting for its life, even if it wasn't. Dog wins.

[Bradyams]

I think all it would take to take out the dog is good reflexes and the ability to land a solid kick in the dog's throat.

[asofel]

have you seen videos of pitbulls and doberman's biting [censored]? while i agree two people could hurt it, its going to [censored] both of them up pretty badly, and i'd be surprised if one guy is fine with getting his ass chewed up while the other guy punches/kicks the thing...

[Bradyams]

Maybe I change my position.
Attack video (http://www.funfry.com/showphoto.php/photo/2472)

I think the biggest problem in a human fighting a dog is that the human would be scared shitless and by the time they snapped out of it they'd already have a chewed up arm.

[asofel]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I change my position.
Attack video (http://www.funfry.com/showphoto.php/photo/2472)

I think the biggest problem in a human fighting a dog is that the human would be scared shitless and by the time they snapped out of it they'd already have a chewed up arm.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, now obviously with some sort of instrument they were able to gang up a little. if all you have is your hands and feet....well, i wouldn't want to try it, put it that way...

[partygirluk]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I change my position.
Attack video (http://www.funfry.com/showphoto.php/photo/2472)

I think the biggest problem in a human fighting a dog is that the human would be scared shitless and by the time they snapped out of it they'd already have a chewed up arm.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like how the guy/gal keeps filming when a fellow human is being attacked by a dog.

[Stuck]

I think one guy could take an attack dog. Most of the time humans don't really start fighting for their lives until its too late and the dog has them on the ground. If you went into the fight with the sole intention of killing the dog, I think it would be possible. Eye gouging would seem the most obvious move. Two guys one dog, I think it would be very easy, since the dog can only cope with one guy at a time.

After all, there's a reason dogs hunt in packs.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I change my position.
Attack video (http://www.funfry.com/showphoto.php/photo/2472)

[/ QUOTE ]
Now take that dog, double its size, and train it to attack/kill people and I think two men with no weapons are in for a world of hurt.

[asofel]

[ QUOTE ]
I think one guy could take an attack dog. Most of the time humans don't really start fighting for their lives until its too late and the dog has them on the ground. If you went into the fight with the sole intention of killing the dog, I think it would be possible. Eye gouging would seem the most obvious move. Two guys one dog, I think it would be very easy, since the dog can only cope with one guy at a time.

After all, there's a reason dogs hunt in packs.

[/ QUOTE ]

how do you intend to gauge his eyes out? Pitbulls have incredibly strong neck and jaw muscles. I doubt you could just hold its head steady if it didn't want you to...

[Boris]

pit bulls kill people all the time. notice that it's usually children and old women who are the victims. the dogs arent' stupid. they only pick fights they can win. I think a two grown men of slightly above average athletic ability would kick the crap out of one dog.

[Stuck]

[ QUOTE ]
how do you intend to gauge his eyes out? Pitbulls have incredibly strong neck and jaw muscles. I doubt you could just hold its head steady if it didn't want you to...

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you need to hold its head steady?

I'm not saying you wouldn't be hurt/maimed, but if it comes down to who comes out alive I'd go with the human. Especially if we're talking someone of decent athleticism.

I think the biggest impediment to the human in these situations is usually shock.

[hogua]

One on one, a well trained dog has a pretty good chance of winning... one good bit to the jewels and it's over.

However, two people working together can take the dog out with little problem. The dog can only attack on person at a time. If/when he bits person A, person B can hit/kick/choke the dog quite easily without fear of harm.

Also, keep in mind that all person B has to do is grab the back of the dog's neck. The would be pretty easy to do when the dog is bitting person A. Perosn B is safe from being bitten and has leverage on the dog. At that point, it's bye bye Fido.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, keep in mind that all a guy has to do is grab the back of the dog's neck. The guy's safe from being bitten and has leverage on the dog. At that point, it's bye bye Fido.

[/ QUOTE ]
Have you ever tried to do this to a dog that doesn't want to be held? Even a small dog? They don't always just go limp and I'd imagine this is something an attack dog would be trained against.

[kurosh]

Why is this even an argument? Human = bigger, stronger, heavier, smarter and has more natural weapons

[asofel]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is this even an argument? Human = bigger, stronger, heavier, smarter and has more natural weapons

[/ QUOTE ]

hand to hand combat with a king cobra. like your chances?

[squeek12]

[ QUOTE ]
True. Another part of my argument is that these dogs are trained to withstand multiple bullet wounds just to take somebody out. If they can withstand that I think they can withstand a lot of what a regular human can dish out.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you train a dog to withstand bullet wounds? I don't think this can be "trained."

[squeek12]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you kidding? 1 average human over a 100lb trained attack dog any day. They jump, you kick them in the face. They latch on somewhere, you gouge out their eyes with your free hand or kick the [censored] out of them with your free leg.

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to agree if the person is reasonably fit and pretty athletic. I'd lay 7:5 in favor of a 6', 180 lb. athlete vs. attack dog.

[illunious]

[ QUOTE ]
From experience I can assure you...no matter how nasty, vicious, or
powerful a dog is, if you can manage to grab it around the mid-section
and lift it bodily off the floor, it is "game over". The brute will hang
immobile in your arms...they don't like losing contact with the ground
and go totaly to pieces when they do. It is up to you to figure out where
to go from there.

The fastest way to immobilise, and kill a vicious dog is to grab its
front paws and jerk its legs apart as far as they will go, perpendicular
to its chest. This collapses its chest and lungs and compresses its
heart. Failing that thrust your hand far back into its mouth and grab
hold of its lower jaw. With your other hand, grab its upper jaw, and
tear the two apart.

In case anyone is wondering if I am a dog hater or sadist, let me assure
you, quite the opposite. I love dogs, I breed and train Dobermans, I
speak "dog" and given the choice, most times I prefer the company of a
dog to that of a human being.

But in this world of "Trained attack dogs", brutalised pit bulls, inbred
shepherds, and a general media overhype, I feel that the thinking person
should understand the general risk and remedies. The dog hasn't been
born that could take down and kill a knowledgeable, fit, and determined
adult Human Being. Note: I didn't say it couldn't hurt you, it can..big
time!

[/ QUOTE ]

[RacersEdge]

I think the guys could win if they were prepared, but not if the dog jumped them.

There would almost have to a plan that one guy gives the dog his arm (can he have it wrapped up with padding?) and then the other guys picks the dog up by its back legs and either 1) spins it into a wall or tree or , if the dof doesn't let go 2)kick the dog in the ribs while he's clamped on.

[Chaostracize]

Like a hand a foot compared to just a mouth.

Good point.


... ...Psych.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
so you think their training makes them immune to bullets or something? no amount of training will help a dog whose spine has been shattered by a bullet, or whose skull has been crushed by a foot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bullets - my only weakness! How did you know?

[teamdonkey]

Unless your two friends weigh less than 250 lbs combined and feint at the site of blood, they are right, they could kill any dog on the planet. Not much of a contest.

[jedi]

If 2 guys can't take on a dog, will 3 do the trick? 4 is probably a sure thing, even if the men aren't totally athletic.

But this begs the question: How many 5-year olds would it take to kill a dog?

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
But this begs the question: How many 5-year olds would it take to kill a dog?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. Does the dog get to wear a protective cup?

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
I tend to agree if the person is reasonably fit and pretty athletic. I'd lay 7:5 in favor of a 6', 180 lb. athlete vs. attack dog.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're going to go broke fast making bets like that.

Anyone who says that a man will beat an attack dog 1v1 is living in a fantasy world.

[Jules22]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I tend to agree if the person is reasonably fit and pretty athletic. I'd lay 7:5 in favor of a 6', 180 lb. athlete vs. attack dog.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're going to go broke fast making bets like that.

Anyone who says that a man will beat an attack dog 1v1 is living in a fantasy world.

[/ QUOTE ]

depends on the guy and on the dog, but i smell a good bet or a bad reality tvshow in the works

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
I think all it would take to take out the dog is good reflexes and the ability to land a solid kick in the dog's throat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither of which well over 90% of the populace has.

[Stuck]

[ QUOTE ]
but i smell a good bet or a bad reality tvshow in the works

[/ QUOTE ]

Or at least a poll.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, keep in mind that all a guy has to do is grab the back of the dog's neck. The guy's safe from being bitten and has leverage on the dog. At that point, it's bye bye Fido.

[/ QUOTE ]
Have you ever tried to do this to a dog that doesn't want to be held? Even a small dog? They don't always just go limp and I'd imagine this is something an attack dog would be trained against.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Holding a dog or a cat that doesn't want to be held is like holding a live wire. With jaws.

People are very top heavy and dogs are much stronger than people seem to be giving them credit for. Also it seems some folks don't realize that dogs are made to bite through bones and eat the marrow. With a single bit, these guys can tear up arteries and even pulverize multiple bones and cut through flesh. You aren't just getting some pain when a dog bites you unless he's just playing -- you could easily be getting maimed.

P.S. this kung fu master talk about kicking his balls and doing things to his neck is a lot harder than it seems, especially when he's pulling you all over by yanking on a torn up limb or knocking you to the ground. By way of further P.S., it's quite possible to fight through getting kicked in the balls. Fighting with maimed limbs or missing fingers isn't so easy, though.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is this even an argument? Human = bigger, stronger, heavier, smarter and has more natural weapons

[/ QUOTE ]

Do we have a prehensile tail or something nobody told me about?

[Stuck]

The fact that there are very few reports of a single dog killing a single man, seems to suggest that its a lot harder than the pro-dog people are suggesting. But I did dig up one, so it does happen. Although at 55, and from Milwaukee, he was potentially not in peak physical fitness.

man killed by doberman (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4196/is_200211/ai_n10833952#continue)

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I tend to agree if the person is reasonably fit and pretty athletic. I'd lay 7:5 in favor of a 6', 180 lb. athlete vs. attack dog.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're going to go broke fast making bets like that.

Anyone who says that a man will beat an attack dog 1v1 is living in a fantasy world.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm amazed to be reading this stuff too.

Then again, this is the group of guys who picked a lion over a rhino and an elephant.

[wacki]

http://www.compfused.com/directlink/744/

btw. You should tell him to take on an Akita Inu. Those things were bred to hunt bears and wild boars.

Also, your friend would get ripped to shreds. I've broken several 2x2 boards on the back of a pit bulls head before it would let go of a black labs neck. There is no way your friend could take that kind of punishment.

[Blarg]

Well, dogs are mostly pets, not set loose daily on people, nor given particular motive to chow down on them frequently. They get put down routinely for merely biting people, and those are pretty much the worst of the worst, so it would be pretty surprising actually if there WERE many reports of dogs killing people. We've had tens of thousands of years to breed that out of them. By and large we're the leaders of their pack, not prey.

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, your friend would get ripped to shreds. I've broken several 2x2 boards on the back of a pit bulls head before it would let go of a black labs neck.

[/ QUOTE ]

The first thing you should do to break up a dog fight: throw a bucket of water on the dogs.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, your friend would get ripped to shreds. I've broken several 2x2 boards on the back of a pit bulls head before it would let go of a black labs neck.

[/ QUOTE ]

The first thing you should do to break up a dog fight: throw a bucket of water on the dogs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will have to remember that.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
True. Another part of my argument is that these dogs are trained to withstand multiple bullet wounds just to take somebody out. If they can withstand that I think they can withstand a lot of what a regular human can dish out.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you think their training makes them immune to bullets or something? no amount of training will help a dog whose spine has been shattered by a bullet, or whose skull has been crushed by a foot.

[/ QUOTE ]
no its true, ive been trained to withstand bullets, and being hit by cars and buses, im almost trained to withstand being hit by locomotives

[gusser]

I think it all depends on what type of dog they would be up against. My pit can hold himself in mid air by his jaws, hanging on a rope. For a truely good fight i suggest the cane corso aka the italian mastiff. They get as large as 200lbs and are built like enourmous pit bulls (large "brick" like head, extremely muscular). Against one of those my money's on the pooch.link (http://www.canecorsoitaliano.org/history.htm)

[touchfaith]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the guys could win if they were prepared, but not if the dog jumped them.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's the key.

2 dudes swimming in thier speedos get jumped by an 80lb shepard...game over, "seeeeend mooore paramedics..."

2 guys going out looking for the fight are easy money. Nice thick leather jackets, jeans, steel toes...bring it dog face. Time to meet lassie.

[wacki]

OtisTheMarsupial, please explain to me why you had to report the OP to the moderator? Huh? What is so bad about this post that you need to report it?

[HtotheNootch]

Much like poker, the best answer is "it depends".

First, two guys might actually have a better shot against a trained attack dog. Trained dogs are usually taught to grab a person's arm. An untrained dog might go anywhere.

Second, the assumption that the human is stronger is not necessarily the case. Rottweillers can pull tremendous amounts of weight.

All I know is I wouldn't want to fight my dog.

[Chaostracize]

The OP was reported?? That's amazing.

Does anyone think if the dog was trained to go for the nuts... one guy down, go for the second, then go for the jugular once they're down...I think that would be a winner.

I swayed a little, but I still think, as long as the people are wearing normal street clothes (w/ sneakers) a trained dog ought to have no problem with them. Especially those 200 lb. muscle clots.

[PeeWeeH]

me and a bud stomped a poodle out once. but since my buddy only has 1 leg and a stump and it was a really big poodle and we didn't sneak up on it i think it is about the same.

so yes.

peewee

[somethingstupid]

dog wins

[querulous]

If the guys were committed to killing the dog, I think they win easy (if one of them getting shred to bits qualifies as easy), but that requires that the one not getting eaten acts immediately.

[Clarkmeister]

2 on 1 this really isn't close IMO. The humans win. Heck, apparently one human can almost take down a full sized crocodile. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=exchange&Number=2070394&Fo rum=f20&Words=hippo&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=207 0394&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=12&daterange=1 &newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyp rev=#Post2070394) This seems like a total mismatch.

[roxtar]

There's only one way to find out.

[HesseJam]

Mind set of the humans is the most important thing here.

If they realize and mentally prepare that this will be a fight to death , they will almost always win, provided they are average fit grown ups.

[Yeti]

You guys obviously haven't played C&C : Red Alert.

[Vavavoom]

[ QUOTE ]
You guys obviously haven't played C&C : Red Alert.

[/ QUOTE ]

How very true...