Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?

[Nightwish]

I've been playing the new Party 30/60 full time for about 3 weeks now. My winrate over 22,500 hands is a pathetic 0.89 BB/100. I was making 2.61 BB/100 over 100,000+ hands in the old Party 15/30. I'm obviously not happy with my 30/60 results.

I realize that I'm likely running bad, but just what kind of winrate is possible in this game? Is there anyone who has over 50,000 hands in this game already and is willing to share his results? Of course, the bigger the sample size the better.

[bicyclekick]

BRAGGER!

My winrate is about 1 overall in the new 30. I am on a nice 28k hand breakeven streak though. This game is a hard game, i don't care what anyone says.

A top player's rate would probably be 1.5-2 tops.

I aspire to 1.5

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
BRAGGER!

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/frown.gif I wish there was something to brag about, but there isn't.

[ QUOTE ]

My winrate is about 1 overall in the new 30. I am on a nice 28k hand breakeven streak though. This game is a hard game, i don't care what anyone says.

A top player's rate would probably be 1.5-2 tops.

I aspire to 1.5

[/ QUOTE ]
Man, and there I was hoping that I could double my $/hand by playing the new 30/60.... The worst part is that there's no going back to the 15/30 now that all the LAGs have moved up.

[Turning Stone Pro]

All BS aside, I've done real well on the PP 30-60 since May 3 (around when all the new tables came in). I'm not sure what my BB/hr is, but I'd bet it's up there pretty good.

I'm like Nate, though, and after playing the Bellagio 80-160 and realizing how much I miss live play, my game on PP 30 has gotten admittedly sloppy.

I'm going to take a few days off and do some fishing.

TSP

[YoureToast]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been playing the new Party 30/60 full time for about 3 weeks now. My winrate over 22,500 hands is a pathetic 0.89 BB/100. I was making 2.61 BB/100 over 100,000+ hands in the old Party 15/30. I'm obviously not happy with my 30/60 results.

I realize that I'm likely running bad, but just what kind of winrate is possible in this game? Is there anyone who has over 50,000 hands in this game already and is willing to share his results? Of course, the bigger the sample size the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rolling...Only 10K hands but +8 BB/100.

[hockey1]

Only about 12,000 hands, but I'm well above 3BB/100. The deck's been hitting me in the face, but I'm also finding plenty of fish.

[Baulucky]

Nope.

[NMcNasty]

22,500 hands in 3 weeks means you're multitabling. Making .89/BB per 100 in the 30/60 is a great rate while multitabling, you really can't ask for more. If you say you made 2.61 BB/100 multitabling at the 15/30, well, I might have to be skeptical.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
22,500 hands in 3 weeks means you're multitabling. Making .89/BB per 100 in the 30/60 is a great rate while multitabling, you really can't ask for more. If you say you made 2.61 BB/100 multitabling at the 15/30, well, I might have to be skeptical.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhhh...there were quite a few who did...over large samples, too. I wasn't quite there at the end but know quite a few people who were.

[ActionBob]

[ QUOTE ]
22,500 hands in 3 weeks means you're multitabling. Making .89/BB per 100 in the 30/60 is a great rate while multitabling, you really can't ask for more. If you say you made 2.61 BB/100 multitabling at the 15/30, well, I might have to be skeptical.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you be skeptical about that? I know of several players who made a similar rate and I myself made over 3BB/100 multi tabling for a few hundred thousand hands.

I had an absolutely horrid start at the 30-60 games myself (probably the worst long term stretch I've ever had, I guess many would say I was due /images/graemlins/smile.gif) but its starting to come around. I'm about .5BB/100 at the 30-60 games through about 35k hands. I personally miss the old 15-30 games. Like Nightwish said, there's just not going to be any turning back as the 30-60 game will have to be the base now of most multi tabling pros and semi-pros. Sigh. Maybe Nighwish and I can start a petition to rid Party of the new 30 games /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-ActionBob

[highlife]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
22,500 hands in 3 weeks means you're multitabling. Making .89/BB per 100 in the 30/60 is a great rate while multitabling, you really can't ask for more. If you say you made 2.61 BB/100 multitabling at the 15/30, well, I might have to be skeptical.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you be skeptical about that? I know of several players who made a similar rate and I myself made over 3BB/100 multi tabling for a few hundred thousand hands.

I had an absolutely horrid start at the 30-60 games myself (probably the worst long term stretch I've ever had, I guess many would say I was due /images/graemlins/smile.gif) but its starting to come around. I'm about .5BB/100 at the 30-60 games through about 35k hands. I personally miss the old 15-30 games. Like Nightwish said, there's just not going to be any turning back as the 30-60 game will have to be the base now of most multi tabling pros and semi-pros. Sigh. Maybe Nighwish and I can start a petition to rid Party of the new 30 games /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-ActionBob

[/ QUOTE ]

and the 20 games too please.

[Fianchetto]

I have about 25K hands in the new party 30 game. After starting out on a marvelous run, the last 10K hands or so I've been getting kicked in the teeth. Add in a tilt session or two and my once proud win rate in that game is now reduced to less than 1BB/100.

I agree that the game is not as easy as the 15 either. There are some donkeys, but also a lot of tough and very aggressive players which makes for a high variance game.

[DpR]

that the 30 has gotten significantly easier in the last couple weeks? I am finding many more fish there now than I was in the first month it was open. Also I am finding players making much bigger mistakes (obviously going hand in hand with the fish). I have even found player calling the river jsut to see what I have. This was not the case several weeks ago where I was lucky to have 1 super fish at teh table.

[mach3]

Is anyone else surprised the 30/60 remains as popular as it is now that the extra tables have been there for 6 weeks or so? I thought it would get a lot of action for a couple of weeks, and settle back down. But 15/30 looks dead to me now. Where do the 'losers' in this game get the money?

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
22,500 hands in 3 weeks means you're multitabling. Making .89/BB per 100 in the 30/60 is a great rate while multitabling, you really can't ask for more.

[/ QUOTE ]
Really? I'm playing 4 tables at a time, which is the exact same number I was doing in the 15/30. Maybe 0.89 BB/100 really is a great rate for this game, but I don't believe this to be the case at this point.

[ QUOTE ]

If you say you made 2.61 BB/100 multitabling at the 15/30, well, I might have to be skeptical.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's really true, and there are people who did better than that. I can post a screenshot if you really insist.

[Barry]

I'm doing OK in the game, up a little over 1BB/100, although I don't have a ton of hands. I started off on fire the 1st week or so, then mangaged to drop 150BB in 2 days. Since then things have been much more rational.

Table selection is important as many times I'll keep opening tables only to find at least 2 or perhaps 3 of the decent regular folks on each table, leaving very few real good games to join. On top of that many of my new "buddies" quickly went broke and either dissapeared or went way down in limits.

[highland]

Did a lot of the higher stakes players "drop down" to the 30/60 when it opened up? There used to be a good number of okay 50/100, 80/160 and 100/200 games online, but now I can't find any in ET evenings, and I'm down 3.5 tabling it at 30/60. Well, I wanted to do that anyhow, since I had just experienced a ~500BB digger and needed to regroup.

cheers,
highland

[DonButtons]

I was wondering the same thing, I use to be 1.29bb/100 according to PT at the old 3 table set up, which I use to 3 table when I got bored of sngs/multis. I mean I got a couple pm's somedays from people like stox/jjprod that Im very good, and other days where 2+2ers PM me about a donkey hand.

[mikelow]

Let's shead a tear. So you dropped from $79 to $53 per 100
hands. Looks like you're doing well to me.

Just play more of the softer 15-30 games. You're not running bad--the 30-60 is most likely a lot tougher.
Probably you should pick your spots when you play the bigger limit.

[skp]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe Nighwish and I can start a petition to rid Party of the new 30 games

[/ QUOTE ]

I will join you. Ever since they opened up the 30 games, the 15 games have sucked. No one seems to be making any mistakes anymore. On the other hand, I have only played 3 sessions for about 9 hours this month so it just might be that I continually found myself in tough tables.

I was about to join the 30 games as of tonight but this thread doesn't exactly have me rubbing my hands in gleeful anticipation.

[DeezNuts]

It seems like all the donks and bad players are pretty evenly spread between the 15, 20, and 30 games. The tough players are definitely localized in the 30 game, though.

DN

[joes28]

maybe im a derb (though i am not THE derb), but I have been 4 tabling party 30/60 and have been crushing it. My BB/100 is 2.05 over 35,068 hands, and it really should be a little higher because I had a streak where I was playing really bad a little while ago, but am now back on track. Though i guess this can be expected every now and then.

I was a regular at the old 30/60, and I would have to say that since they added the new tables the games have been A LOT softer.

[Peter_rus]

0.4BB/100 currently over 50K of new 30/60 games 4-tabling in average (3 to 6 tables). Had 2.4/100 in older 15/30 6-tabling for 200K. I suspect there are too little fishes and too much decent players to share fishes money.

To my opinion current 15/30 become tighter though still quite more passive comparing to 30/60, 30/60 didn't changed after adding more tables. Im seriously thinking if playing precisely SH 15/30-30/60 or 10/20 6max could be more profitable at least for me.

[Nigel]

BK,

I think back in April you talked about still being unsure if you would keep the 15/30 as your regular game, although I imagine you are so immensely overrolled for 15/30 it's comical.

I am kind of surprised that I am seeing some of the long time 15/30 pros in the 15/30 still. OscarPGM comes to mind.

At any rate, this thread is depressing. I'd like to make the 30 my full time game, as I have only logged under 10k hands so far at the 20 and 30 combined, but it seems like the 15 might be almost as profitable without the brutal swings.

What are your thoughts on this these days?

Nigel

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
0.4BB/100 currently over 50K of new 30/60 games 4-tabling in average (3 to 6 tables). Had 2.4/100 in older 15/30 6-tabling for 200K. I suspect there are too little fishes and too much decent players to share fishes money.


[/ QUOTE ]
This post is bad news. I've seen you play many times, and though our styles are very different, I think you're a very good player. If it's true that a very good player (and I'm not necessarily saying that I am one, though I've had good results in the past) can only make 0.5 BB/100 in this game, my conclusion is that I'd be better off getting a real job with its accompanying paycheck stability, benefits, etc. And it wouldn't be even close.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
0.4BB/100 currently over 50K of new 30/60 games 4-tabling in average (3 to 6 tables). Had 2.4/100 in older 15/30 6-tabling for 200K. I suspect there are too little fishes and too much decent players to share fishes money.

To my opinion current 15/30 become tighter though still quite more passive comparing to 30/60, 30/60 didn't changed after adding more tables. Im seriously thinking if playing precisely SH 15/30-30/60 or 10/20 6max could be more profitable at least for me.

[/ QUOTE ]


what are your blind defense stats like now, out of curiousity?

[Nate tha' Great]

I'm at 1.03 BB/100 since the 30 tables were opened up, about 35K hands. Ironically I was running somewhat better than this when the number of tables were restricted so my overall rate in the 30/60 is somewhat better, approaching the 1.5 benchmark.

This thread is a little disconcerting. That said, even 1.0 BB/100 works out to about $200/hour 4-tabling, so there might not be too much to complain about.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Did a lot of the higher stakes players "drop down" to the 30/60 when it opened up? There used to be a good number of okay 50/100, 80/160 and 100/200 games online, but now I can't find any in ET evenings, and I'm down 3.5 tabling it at 30/60. Well, I wanted to do that anyhow, since I had just experienced a ~500BB digger and needed to regroup.

cheers,
highland

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I think that's part of it. If Schneids and bicyclekick and fifteen other pros comes over from other sites and start 4+ tabling the 30/60, that's going to have an impact on the game. The player pool is not all *that* large.

[Nigel]

I get about 250 hands per hour 4 tabling, so about $150/hr 4 tabling at 1BB/100. I'm sure I am not nearly the player you or Peter are and if you guys are struggling to get 1BB in this game, it makes me wonder if this is one of those games/levels that's just better off skipped, like the old 10/20 full.

Aren't solid NL players making about this much 4 tabling at even the $600 tables? I don't know much about NL win rates so I may be way off here, someone correct me if I am wrong. Is NL a better road to more $/hr at lower risk/variance?

Also, is 4 tables reasonably the max for the 30, or can 6 be played without too much decline in WR? Anyone here doing 6 or more? I'm assuming you can't auto-pilot too much in this game if it's this tough.

Nigel

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
I get about 250 hands per hour 4 tabling, so about $150/hr 4 tabling at 1BB/100.

[/ QUOTE ]

250/hour is probably more reasonable, unless you're playing a lot of shorthanded. The "old" 30/60 used to run particularly fast since you didn't have players posting and coming and going all the time, but the new game can be slow at times. Plus you're going to lose some time to opening and closing and selecting tables, which is a must since table selection is essential in this game. I might be four-tabling, but it's probably closer to say 3.6 tables that I'm actively playing at any given moment.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure I am not nearly the player you or Peter are and if you guys are struggling to get 1BB in this game, it makes me wonder if this is one of those games/levels that's just better off skipped, like the old 10/20 full.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that might be a bit of an exaggeration. Most of the "top" posters here I'd guess are ultimately going to wind up somewhere in the neighborhood of $175-$200 if they're four-tabling and that's good money.

The other problem is that it's not clear just what one might jump to. At any given moment, there might be something like 10-15 hold 'em tables higher than say 40-80 running in the entire US (excluding extremely high limits), say 1-2 at Bellagio and 4-5 at Commerce and 2 at Stars and maybe 1-2 at UB and say 3-4 at Interpoker or what have you. That just isn't a lot of game selection.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, is 4 tables reasonably the max for the 30, or can 6 be played without too much decline in WR? Anyone here doing 6 or more? I'm assuming you can't auto-pilot too much in this game if it's this tough.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've played four tables for a long time and get put to enough tough decisions in the 30/60 that I don't feel in a hurry to add more, especially as one or two of those tables is usually running pretty short. The interesting question IMO is whether the 15/30 might actually be more profitable, between the higher BB/100 win rates and possibly the ability to play more tables without giving up as much. Some of this may eventually be arbitraged out as well; if some of the winning regulars are struggling at 30/60 they may jump down, pushing some profit back into the 30 game.

[Nigel]

[ QUOTE ]
The other problem is that it's not clear just what one might jump to. At any given moment, there might be something like 10-15 hold 'em tables higher than say 40-80 running in the entire US (excluding extremely high limits), say 1-2 at Bellagio and 4-5 at Commerce and 2 at Stars and maybe 1-2 at UB and say 3-4 at Interpoker or what have you. That just isn't a lot of game selection.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, having been so Party-centric for so long, I didn't realize the situation was that grim. And you're including live poker too!

I had always assumed there were a fair number of high limit games at the other sites waiting for me if my skill level and bankroll ever got up to par.

The good ol' Party 15/30 at isn't looking so bad these days as a stable income/bankroll building game.

[Enon]

I know 2 players who are beating the 30/60 for 3 BB/100 over 100K+ hands:

Daniel H who posts sporadically in the mid high forum recently said in a post that he and a friend who experiment together with looser play (VP$IP of around 30%) had a combined winrate of 3BB over 100k. Tried searching for this post but I couldn't find it. It is a recent one though so it should probably be easy to find.

Also, I have recently been communicating with one of the top 30/60 players who 8 tables the game 8 hours per day. He claims to also have a winrate of 3 BB over 100k+ since the new games opened up. I trust this player since I've recognized him as a excellent player over the past year I've played with him. His goal for the year is $800k stricly from 30/60 party game !!

As for myself, I'm a pretty mediocre player and I've made about 1.4 BB over the my last 30k hands.

[Barry]

Well I was running well until today...

KK 5x and lost 4 of them. 2x I was against AA, 1x vs AJ, A on the flop, then the worst of all. It's capped 3 ways. Flop is KJ7, flop is capped, turn is 7, turn is capped, river blank and capped, I lose to 77.

[Nigel]

In a game that appears to be this tough I don't how you could maintain 3+BB/100. With even just one bad run of any appreciable length you'd be hosed, heck even a good break-even stretch would kill you.

Knowing how good some of the players are that seem to be "struggling" and seeing their collective WR's for what is well over 100k hands, I would say that over 3BB/100 for that many hands is either a case of being an insane luckbox or selective reporting/importing.

But hey, I'd like to believe it's achievable! In my best Martin Yan voice... If Derb can do it, so can you!

Nigel

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
I know 2 players who are beating the 30/60 for 3 BB/100 over 100K+ hands:

Daniel H who posts sporadically in the mid high forum recently said in a post that he and a friend who experiment together with looser play (VP$IP of around 30%) had a combined winrate of 3BB over 100k. Tried searching for this post but I couldn't find it. It is a recent one though so it should probably be easy to find.

Also, I have recently been communicating with one of the top 30/60 players who 8 tables the game 8 hours per day. He claims to also have a winrate of 3 BB over 100k+ since the new games opened up. I trust this player since I've recognized him as a excellent player over the past year I've played with him. His goal for the year is $800k stricly from 30/60 party game !!

As for myself, I'm a pretty mediocre player and I've made about 1.4 BB over the my last 30k hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Win rates are such a black box, really. The 1.5/100 number has been tossed around in private conversations between some 2+2ers and may have become something of an indstury standard without any empirical validation. The "true" theoretical winrate for an expert might somewhat higher, though 3/100 seems dubious.

There's also a selective sampling issue going on here. This has obviously turned into the "I'm running mediocre!" thread and the people who have posted results are the people who are in fact running mediocre. Frankly if I had run at 3.0/100 over my last 40K I probably wouldn't post that as it would come off as a brag and I probably also wouldn't post my results if say I had lost money during that stretch as I'd be too embarassed.

Subjectively speaking, I feel like I *have* run bad while posting that 1/100 number (and objectively speaking, I know that I played bad/tilty during maybe 20% of those hands) so I expect better things for myself going forward, but I don't know how reliable that sort of judgement is. Frankly I really have no idea what my "true" winrate is, in part because I'm bouncing around between different games and in part because my game itself is changing and mostly because, as I've been aptly reminded over the past six weeks or so, the long-run in poker is very, very, very long.

[mikelow]

Well, there must be some losers in this game.

Not anyone on this forum?

[sthief09]

do you realize how pointless worrying about 22k, or 50k, or even 80k hands is, especially when you're in the ballpark of what you'd expect?

[mach3]

Oh no - I feel a DERB argument coming on.

Regarding the guy who 8 tables and beats it for 3BB/100 - I find that to be an amazing claim. I don't think it would be impossible to beat for 3BB 4 tabling, but you end up HU or 3 way w/ a blind so many times, that player reads are MUCH more important. The players, even the losing ones, are flat out better. I 8 tabled 15/30, not sure I could do it at 30/60. I used to read/surf while 4 tabling 15/30, but can't do it at 30/60 - all other windows are closed for me. I play in shorter burst too, to stay fresh.

[ QUOTE ]

Daniel H who posts sporadically in the mid high forum recently said in a post that he and a friend who experiment together with looser play (VP$IP of around 30%) had a combined winrate of 3BB over 100k. Tried searching for this post but I couldn't find it. It is a recent one though so it should probably be easy to find.

Also, I have recently been communicating with one of the top 30/60 players who 8 tables the game 8 hours per day. He claims to also have a winrate of 3 BB over 100k+ since the new games opened up. I trust this player since I've recognized him as a excellent player over the past year I've played with him. His goal for the year is $800k stricly from 30/60 party game !!


[/ QUOTE ]

[Klepton]

18k hands - 5.09bb/100

my game selection is awesome

[obi---one]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh no - I feel a DERB argument coming on.

Regarding the guy who 8 tables and beats it for 3BB/100 - I find that to be an amazing claim. I don't think it would be impossible to beat for 3BB 4 tabling, but you end up HU or 3 way w/ a blind so many times, that player reads are MUCH more important. The players, even the losing ones, are flat out better. I 8 tabled 15/30, not sure I could do it at 30/60. I used to read/surf while 4 tabling 15/30, but can't do it at 30/60 - all other windows are closed for me. I play in shorter burst too, to stay fresh.

[ QUOTE ]

Daniel H who posts sporadically in the mid high forum recently said in a post that he and a friend who experiment together with looser play (VP$IP of around 30%) had a combined winrate of 3BB over 100k. Tried searching for this post but I couldn't find it. It is a recent one though so it should probably be easy to find.

Also, I have recently been communicating with one of the top 30/60 players who 8 tables the game 8 hours per day. He claims to also have a winrate of 3 BB over 100k+ since the new games opened up. I trust this player since I've recognized him as a excellent player over the past year I've played with him. His goal for the year is $800k stricly from 30/60 party game !!


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how someone could have a winrate of 3bbb when playing 8 tables because there are never eight good games going on at one time. But, I believe a 3bb win rate is possible if 4 tabling, coupled with great game selection and great play.

[bicyclekick]

Heh...as almost a mockery...I had a fantastic day playing today. Played 2k hands today at 5 different limits, 30/60 to 200/400 and the only one I lost at was party 30/60. I swear to god I hate that game.. I'll take running good at the higher limits any day, but it's just kinda sickly amusing that I luckbox every other game but can't catch a break in the 30.

There are plenty of not-good players in the 30, but the super donaters are not that easy to find. It's those guys that lead to inflated winrates.

Since you asked...I play the 30 when I can't get enough tables of higher games, which is pretty often.

[4thstreetpete]

I was on a tear last month and did pretty well before that. Winrate was hovering 3+bb for a while and I felt like I was on top of the world. It's amazing how you can feel like you're the absolute [censored] one minute and feel like crap the next. This month variance has smacked me hard in the face. I've already had a few 100bbs downswings but that's just due to the nature of my play. At 30/60 I find this to be quite normal because everyone is so aggressive but this month I had a ~200 downswing and at 30/60 that hurts.
The swings are crazy, if you go on an extended period of not catching and forcing things to happen it could cost you a lot of money. I'm actually break even for this month but if I continue to run bad or play bad it's very conceivable that this will be my first losing month since I've gone semipro. I started to take poker seriously again for about 2 years now and I haven't had a losing month since, it looks like this could be the month (although I still have about 13 days into my 'month').

Everytime I start to question my play and think that I'm not ready for this game or that I'm getting outplayed, I review my hands during my downswings and there's still just too many donks in the game still for it not to be profitable. I don't think I could go back to 15/30 now because the floodgates have opened, although I could change my tune if I go on a 500+bb downswing tomorrow. Nevertheless prior to jumping onto 30/60 full time I was actually aiming low and would be happy getting a 1.0bb while 6-8 tabling the 30/60. 1.0BB at 30/60 would be like earning 2.0BB at 15/30 I figured which was great. Now having a 1.0bb just doesn't cut it. There's lots of good players in this game and it's very easy to go on an extended losing streak at this level and get decimated. I have since dropped down to 4 tables to focus better on my play.
My winrate has dwindled down to 1.5BB from what was once very promising number and for the first time in a long while it really is starting to feel like a grind. The games are still good however. Lately I've been playing a lot of shorthanded games and I find I'm really enjoying it more. We'll see how it goes.

[bicyclekick]

omg omg omg i finally ran good in the 30 game. Up 113bb in 2 hours this morning. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, there must be some losers in this game.

Not anyone on this forum?

[/ QUOTE ]


I dropped about 10k in May.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been playing the new Party 30/60 full time for about 3 weeks now. My winrate over 22,500 hands is a pathetic 0.89 BB/100. I was making 2.61 BB/100 over 100,000+ hands in the old Party 15/30. I'm obviously not happy with my 30/60 results.

I realize that I'm likely running bad, but just what kind of winrate is possible in this game? Is there anyone who has over 50,000 hands in this game already and is willing to share his results? Of course, the bigger the sample size the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

ideal winrate (aka, goal to set but almost certainly wont reach)imo is about 2.5bb/100 for hundreds of thousands of hands (given the 2p2 standard preflop play). anything between 1.75-2.5 is great.

before the party game blew up to more than 6 tables i was beating the game for 52k hands at the low end of the "great" rate range above.

once it opened up i went on a lovely -0.07bb/100 for 26k hands. i know better players who were doing much worse than me though so i can tell you that you can very easily be running bad. in fact, thats likely whats happening. it also depends on your st.dev. mine is somewhere around 15bb/100 last time i checked. higher st.dev's w/ the win rate held constant are more likely to experience larger swings.

i've just now (1 week ago) gotten the new open tables win rate back into the black.

id say most people who were really really beating the 15 games quite badly are now going to be beating the 30 games albeit not by as much.

-Barron

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
it also depends on your st.dev. mine is somewhere around 15bb/100 last time i checked. higher st.dev's w/ the win rate held constant are more likely to experience larger swings.

[/ QUOTE ]
Right, I understand that. The interesting thing is that my standard deviation is actually less in 30/60 (13.41 BB/100) than it was in 15/30 (14.56 BB/100). I'm guessing my standard deviation is actually on the low end of the standard 2+2 range, which I'm guessing is due to the fact that my blinds play, in particular, is quite different from standard 2+2.

[ QUOTE ]

id say most people who were really really beating the 15 games quite badly are now going to be beating the 30 games albeit not by as much.


[/ QUOTE ]
I can tell you right now that I won't be happy unless I'm beating this game for at least 2 BB/100. I understand that even 1 BB/100 represents a significant chunk of cash, so I'm not being snooty about it. It's just that there's money and then there's personal achievement. We all obviously want the former, but I also want the latter. I need to prove to myself that I'm truly kicking ass in that game before I can feel a sense of achievement and without it, something will always be missing. I wish I knew of a better way to express it.

[mach3]

[ QUOTE ]


id say most people who were really really beating the 15 games quite badly are now going to be beating the 30 games albeit not by as much.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

didn't most of the 15/30 regulars move up to 30/60? i don't understand what suddenly makes this that much more difficult of a game, sure every limit increase brings better competition, but enough to cut winrates by 50% plus?

[montechristo]

i know my post might be out of place here but I dropped 5K into the coffers of you 30/60 sharks. good luck beating that game for 3bb though... Feckin 5K. Oh did I mention that was in 1 day? AHHH I'm a donk.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
omg omg omg i finally ran good in the 30 game. Up 113bb in 2 hours this morning. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, update:

The last 28k hands and I'm down 4k in that game. I played 2000 hands of it today and won 16k+(275 big bets). Poker is so stupid. How bout a little spreading out of the luck plz thx.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
omg omg omg i finally ran good in the 30 game. Up 113bb in 2 hours this morning. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, update:

The last 28k hands and I'm down 4k in that game. I played 2000 hands of it today and won 16k+(275 big bets). Poker is so stupid. How bout a little spreading out of the luck plz thx.

[/ QUOTE ]

jesus

[4thstreetpete]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


id say most people who were really really beating the 15 games quite badly are now going to be beating the 30 games albeit not by as much.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

didn't most of the 15/30 regulars move up to 30/60? i don't understand what suddenly makes this that much more difficult of a game, sure every limit increase brings better competition, but enough to cut winrates by 50% plus?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking about this the other day. When party opened up the 30/60 tables I never saw a huge influx of new players. It was the same exact players who were playing these 30/60 limits. They didn't get all better at the same time all of a sudden. I think it may be just a perception that the games are tougher because the increased money passed around is of more significance to us now.
I still think the games are as good as ever. Since my last post I went on an upswing again so things are back to normal.
I think that some people who are losing at 30/60 are not used to the new limits and not mentally prepared to throw that much money around. You have to adjust to the game and the players.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
omg omg omg i finally ran good in the 30 game. Up 113bb in 2 hours this morning. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, update:

The last 28k hands and I'm down 4k in that game. I played 2000 hands of it today and won 16k+(275 big bets). Poker is so stupid. How bout a little spreading out of the luck plz thx.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can I be you?

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking about this the other day. When party opened up the 30/60 tables I never saw a huge influx of new players. It was the same exact players who were playing these 30/60 limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do know that me, james282, schneids, and dcfrths play in the 30 now some but didn't play in the 15. Not saying we single handedly make it that much tougher...but if we came back to party for it, I'm sure there are plenty of others who did too.

[Baulucky]

I'm one of them (losers).

[DpR]

Never seen a Saturday night with so few fish. Guess people dont get drunk enough to spew that much money. Guess my view as there being an influx of fish recently was happenstanc at my tables. Last night I was 3 tabling and not 1 of those 3 tables had a guy with a vpip over 27% and all three had averages under 20%. Geez!

[obi---one]

[ QUOTE ]
Never seen a Saturday night with so few fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I didn't play last night.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

[ QUOTE ]
Never seen a Saturday night with so few fish. Guess people dont get drunk enough to spew that much money. Guess my view as there being an influx of fish recently was happenstanc at my tables. Last night I was 3 tabling and not 1 of those 3 tables had a guy with a vpip over 27% and all three had averages under 20%. Geez!

[/ QUOTE ]

Why bother? I'd think dropping to the 15/30 and finding a few fish would be much more profitable.

[gillabong]

DpR: yea thats one of the worst Sat night's I've seen. But if you're playing at a table where the loosest player is a 27 vpip, that may be poor table selection? I mean the tables were bad, but I've never seen it as tight as you say.

[Nigel]

There weren't many fish there either last night. It was the worst Saturday I've ever seen, but they all have been bad recently.

Weekend nights seem to be getting worse and and worse as of late, so I wonder what this is saying about the poker economy.

Nigel

[DpR]

Agreed. I kept moving tables and couldn't find anything good. Best I found was 9 players with vip of <25% and 1 guy at 40%. Not profictable for sure - thus I quit after a couple hundred hands. Never thought I woudl not play much on a saturday night due to game selection.

[Schneids]

I played 315 hands at 30/60 last night/this morning around 3:30am central time.... No table selection, no notes. Average players 4.6 per table with an Average-See-Flop of 40.79 pct. Considering my VPIP in these games was 36.19, I don't think the tables were great from a PF standpoint. However, there were plenty of idiots just playing bad or mediocre postflop. I was at NLSoldiers playing and his roommate was playing on four 30's as well and would surely agree with me that we were on seven different good short handed tables at once.

I do think if you're using playerview or GT+ or something and doing lots of datamining the games probably look like shyte. But a lot of these guys with decent numbers still suck postflop. Plus, yes, overall it probably is tougher to make a buck but if someone is struggling in these games I think it's time to cut down on tables and focus better because I have no table selection skill and I still have gotten up twice in my life from a Party 30 game because I've thought it _bad_ and I'm nothing special at poker.

[DpR]

Don't disagree at all. There were deinitely bad players at the table. The difference is I am a married and I am not staying up till 3AM to earn 1.5BB/100. I play sat nights because the gaems are usually so bad you can do 3+ and bring the average up from the rest of the week.

I can play at 4PM and get the same quality table. I need the SUPER fish there to play all night.

[Dazarath]

So if the fish aren't at the 15 tables and you guys say they aren't at the 20 or 30 tables, either, I'm wondering where they are. Do you guys think a lot of them went broke too quickly at the 30 tables and now they're all out or playing small stakes, now? Hmm, maybe 10/20 shorthanded is a good option to look into.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
So if the fish aren't at the 15 tables and you guys say they aren't at the 20 or 30 tables, either, I'm wondering where they are. Do you guys think a lot of them went broke too quickly at the 30 tables and now they're all out or playing small stakes, now? Hmm, maybe 10/20 shorthanded is a good option to look into.

[/ QUOTE ]

nope, no fish there at all. none whatsoever. stay where you are. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I played 2000 hands of it today and won 16k+(275 big bets).

[/ QUOTE ]

I played 2000 hands of 5/10 6max today and lost 33 bets. I hate your guts.

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
omg omg omg i finally ran good in the 30 game. Up 113bb in 2 hours this morning. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, update:

The last 28k hands and I'm down 4k in that game. I played 2000 hands of it today and won 16k+(275 big bets). Poker is so stupid. How bout a little spreading out of the luck plz thx.

[/ QUOTE ]
Very nice. I instead dropped 35 BB tonight. My problem is not so much the other good players as the fact that the LAGs are consistently sucking out on me (and then giving out my cash to everyone else). Here's a hand that perfectly describes tonight's session. UTG is a LAG and the button is a maniac.


Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (24.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 27.50 BB
<font color="#009B00">Main Pot: 27.50 BB, between UTG, Button and Hero.</font> &gt; <font color="#FFFFFF">Pot won by Button (27.50 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG has As Td (one pair, tens).
Button has Qc Qs (straight, queen high).
Hero has Kc Kh (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Button wins 27.50 BB. </font>


I can't wait till this f<font color="][/color">ucking month of June is finally over.

[helpmeout]

Looks like you are the LAG 3betting that turn on that board with only a pair of kings.

[GuyOnTilt]

After losing a Hyundai today in the 30, I'm pretty sure it's unbeatable. We should all just leave it and never come back. Yup. Everybody leave.

GoT

[Baulucky]

[ QUOTE ]
and I'm nothing special at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. You're just on the top 0.5% of online LHE players. Nothing special.

[Mempho]

[ QUOTE ]
There weren't many fish there either last night. It was the worst Saturday I've ever seen, but they all have been bad recently.

Weekend nights seem to be getting worse and and worse as of late, so I wonder what this is saying about the poker economy.

Nigel

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't underestimate the impact that the WSOP has on middle limit players. A lot of money gets dumped into those tournament prize pools one way or another.

[mach3]

[ QUOTE ]

The last 28k hands and I'm down 4k in that game. I played 2000 hands of it today and won 16k+(275 big bets). Poker is so stupid. How bout a little spreading out of the luck plz thx.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not even sure how this is possible. did you win every pot you entered??? to win that much in 2k hands, you'd have to be involved in (and win!) several monster pots, which don't seem to come along that often in 30/60. congrats on a hell of a day.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The last 28k hands and I'm down 4k in that game. I played 2000 hands of it today and won 16k+(275 big bets). Poker is so stupid. How bout a little spreading out of the luck plz thx.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not even sure how this is possible. did you win every pot you entered??? to win that much in 2k hands, you'd have to be involved in (and win!) several monster pots, which don't seem to come along that often in 30/60. congrats on a hell of a day.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the 300 or 400k hands I've played in my life, I've never had a run like this. It was seriously sick. I also somehow got on a bunch of tables with 35+ vpip's. Every freaking ridiculous hand came in. I couldn't believe it. I guess it was the poker god's way of making up for the bs that was the last 28k hands. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Yes, i won nearly every pot I entered.

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like you are the LAG 3betting that turn on that board with only a pair of kings.

[/ QUOTE ]
Go back and read the post. Then think about how to play against a maniac when you have an overpair.

[mach3]

people should reference this post the next time someone posts a "should I quite while I'm ahead" question - LOL. NO - BK once won 300BB in a sitting...

[RydenStoompala]

Just curious: Did Party pop open a bunch more 30's just ahead of their public stock offering so that the first quarter of real earnings looks better? Or is it a drop in the bucket? Or should I be paranoid because everyone really is after me?

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and I'm nothing special at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. You're just on the top 0.5% of online LHE players. Nothing special.

[/ QUOTE ]

hes being humble.

-Barron

[capone0]

Thing is they aren't going to get much more in rake in comparison to the 15s and the 30s. I don't think this really affected them. All it will change is the movement of money between players, not much else. Rake is close to the same in the 15s and the 30s is it not? Still 3
capped.

[DpR]

I got it about a dime higher in the 30.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The last 28k hands and I'm down 4k in that game. I played 2000 hands of it today and won 16k+(275 big bets). Poker is so stupid. How bout a little spreading out of the luck plz thx.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not even sure how this is possible. did you win every pot you entered??? to win that much in 2k hands, you'd have to be involved in (and win!) several monster pots, which don't seem to come along that often in 30/60. congrats on a hell of a day.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the 300 or 400k hands I've played in my life, I've never had a run like this. It was seriously sick. I also somehow got on a bunch of tables with 35+ vpip's. Every freaking ridiculous hand came in. I couldn't believe it. I guess it was the poker god's way of making up for the bs that was the last 28k hands. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Yes, i won nearly every pot I entered.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm only going to say this once more: I hate your guts.

[Jezebel]

I'm going to float a theory as to why some of the cash games seem to have less fish recently..

This is just a theory, but I have noticed even in B&amp;M mid limit games that their are fewer fish in the last month or two.

My theory is all of the fish have been playing satellites trying to win a seat to the big one. I'd be suprised if the cash games don't improve after mid July.

[bicyclekick]

I think the state of the games is actually good.

[Mempho]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to float a theory as to why some of the cash games seem to have less fish recently..

This is just a theory, but I have noticed even in B&amp;M mid limit games that their are fewer fish in the last month or two.

My theory is all of the fish have been playing satellites trying to win a seat to the big one. I'd be suprised if the cash games don't improve after mid July.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have stated this before. Many people push it off, but the fact is that television is a double-edged sword. Right now, some of our players are going broke trying to win a seat (whether in Vegas or online). Trust me, a whole lot of them have already come and gone from Vegas. Most of them lost heavily.

[Peter_rus]

[ QUOTE ]
This is just a theory, but I have noticed even in B&amp;M mid limit games that their are fewer fish in the last month or two.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't remember such 'fishlessness' year ago in May-June. Though i played 5/10 SH...

[mach3]

I think, at these limits, the WSOP does take a chunk of the players. The fish at 30/60 and up are recreational, decent to good players with money to burn. They probably are out in Vegas screwing around. I'm not into the tourny scene myself, and hoping they come back around later in the summer. Also - it is summer, people are out enjoying the weather.

[Klepton]

[ QUOTE ]
After losing a Hyundai today in the 30, I'm pretty sure it's unbeatable. We should all just leave it and never come back. Yup. Everybody leave.

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

i was playing at some of your tables, and i left even last night after 1k hands because the tables were very unprofitable. sometimes the "LAGs" play extremely well postflop, and the fish are now the weak tighties.

however, there are still very good games going throughout the entire day

[Jeffage]

I think a lot of rich donators are playing NL instead which is having a bad effect on mid limit games.

Jeff

[Supersetoy]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, there must be some losers in this game.

Not anyone on this forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

My friend took his laughable bank roll of 10K and went bust multi tabling the 30/60.

He can't post here because he's currently in jail. He figured he could beat the game, I warned him that it wouldn't be his "everyday" 3/6 and 4/8 fishy game. He didn't listen.

[helpmeout]

[ QUOTE ]
Go back and read the post. Then think about how to play against a maniac when you have an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know how to play a maniac with an overpair. It doesnt involve going crazy on a very coordinated board, especially with someone else in the pot.

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Go back and read the post. Then think about how to play against a maniac when you have an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know how to play a maniac with an overpair. It doesnt involve going crazy on a very coordinated board, especially with someone else in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is silly. You do realize I had the best hand until the river, right? And I simply check-called at that point. So what would you have me do? Play it soft when I have the best hand just because someone has a draw and may suck out on me?

Don't you think I realize that they were both on draws or had a made hand worse than mine? And don't you think the goal is to charge them for that?

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
Thing is they aren't going to get much more in rake in comparison to the 15s and the 30s. I don't think this really affected them. All it will change is the movement of money between players, not much else. Rake is close to the same in the 15s and the 30s is it not? Still 3
capped.

[/ QUOTE ]
The point is not the rake per table. That's capped pretty much every time at 15/30 and above. The point is the number of tables going. Now imagine if Party did some research and found out that they could attract more players by opening up 20/40 and 30/60 and thus stealing market share for those games from Paradise, Stars, and UB. And imagine that they determined that they could do this without an offsetting large drop in the number of 15/30 tables. Wouldn't it make business sense to make the decision they did?

[skp]

As good a reason as any. The recent poker explosion is not because guys are flocking to play limit hold 'em. It's NL that is attracting the masses.

I played my first ever session of an NL cash game a couple of weeks ago (live poker). The play is abysmal. Even a NL clown like me could spot the egregious errors these guys were making.

[helpmeout]

You are being results orientated, you had the best hand until the river only cos your opponents had AT and QQ.

There are many other combinations that have you well beat.

How do you realise that both were on draws or worse made hands than yours when every street got capped?

Even LAGs and Maniacs pickup good hands from time to time.

[NLSoldier]

The game definately seems beatable but it has definately been rough on me the past few days.
Meanwhile, my roomate had a 300BB downswing in that game today. But its OK because he won it ALL back, TODAY. Any of you guys ever heard of anything close to a 300BB swing in each direction in the very same day?

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
The game definately seems beatable but it has definately been rough on me the past few days.
Meanwhile, my roomate had a 300BB downswing in that game today. But its OK because he won it ALL back, TODAY. Any of you guys ever heard of anything close to a 300BB swing in each direction in the very same day?

[/ QUOTE ]

dont know what it is but its just that party poker magic.

600move in like 3k hands is just wow. makes my measly "downswing" look like nothing.

-Barron

[bicyclekick]

it was 6k hands btw.

[Baulucky]

[ QUOTE ]
it was 6k hands btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you know this?.

Was an unassisted human playing?. How many tables at once?.

If a BOT was playing, was it a full BOT or only a preflop BOT?. How many tables was it playing at once?.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it was 6k hands btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you know this?.

Was an unassisted human playing?. How many tables at once?.

If a BOT was playing, was it a full BOT or only a preflop BOT?. How many tables was it playing at once?.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he's a friend of mine and he told schneids who told me?

[mach3]

[ QUOTE ]
it was 6k hands btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

damn - dude needs to get outside once in a while.

[Turning Stone Pro]

I'm sick of this thread, with all the bragging, whining, speculation, and just mindless drivel.

Can't wait 'til they put in private table 30-60, so that I can host my games again and force the big-mouths to put their $ where their mouths are. You boys know the password.

TSP

[Baulucky]

Interesting, if true.

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
You are being results orientated, you had the best hand until the river only cos your opponents had AT and QQ.

There are many other combinations that have you well beat.

How do you realise that both were on draws or worse made hands than yours when every street got capped?

Even LAGs and Maniacs pickup good hands from time to time.

[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously, go back and read the hand again. UTG raised once preflop but wouldn't even cap when it came back to him reraised preflop. And then he proceeded to just call the rest of the way. So you think he has something that beats top pair? And the other guy is a maniac. I've seen him player top pair no kicker (as well as absolutely nothing) exactly the same way.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue with you anymore. If you want to play huge hands softly against a maniac, it's your call.

[JimmyV]

Been out of touch for a while but can't resist tagging on my own recent results, since the thread has elicited so many others.

There was some serious concern last month that my long miserable break-even stretch at 15/30 suggested that I might be a donkey. (I did, however, get a supportive and encouraging PM or two.)

I've since reached the 18K hand mark with a win rate of 3.61 BB/100 at the 30/60. Somehow it plays much more straightforwardly to me (and also I keep getting dealt the best hand...).

I'll not update again till statistical significance starts to kick in. But had to refute the naysayers.

Will be posting some hands soon, since I'm back online at last.

JimmyV

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
it was 6k hands btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

jesus...james and i used to play together and log similar hours. we'd log about 3k hands/day which was ALOT of poker. i know i was fried and needed to go get a drink after that (4 tabling party and 2 tabling other sites)

6k hands is an effing marathon...nicely done NLsoldier.

-Barron

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sick of this thread, with all the bragging, whining, speculation, and just mindless drivel.

Can't wait 'til they put in private table 30-60, so that I can host my games again and force the big-mouths to put their $ where their mouths are. You boys know the password.

TSP

[/ QUOTE ]

well, i'll start it off by saying it is you, TSP, who is doing the sucking /images/graemlins/wink.gif

oh, btw, hows the practice fitting into your poker time?

-Barron

[Turning Stone Pro]

It sucks. How can I be expected to play poker with you sharks if I have to try cases and deal with unreasonable clients?!

TSP

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting, if true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its true.

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it was 6k hands btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

jesus...james and i used to play together and log similar hours. we'd log about 3k hands/day which was ALOT of poker. i know i was fried and needed to go get a drink after that (4 tabling party and 2 tabling other sites)

6k hands is an effing marathon...nicely done NLsoldier.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

It wasnt me, it was my roomate. But I was sitting next to him playing almost the whole time, just not as many tables.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it was 6k hands btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

jesus...james and i used to play together and log similar hours. we'd log about 3k hands/day which was ALOT of poker. i know i was fried and needed to go get a drink after that (4 tabling party and 2 tabling other sites)

6k hands is an effing marathon...nicely done NLsoldier.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

It wasnt me, it was my roomate. But I was sitting next to him playing almost the whole time, just not as many tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many tables?

[skp]

I played 30-60 for the first time this past weekend. Small sample size with probably only about 8 hours total over the 3 days...but in many ways, this game seemed to play less aggressively postflop than the 15 games. Of course, I contributed to that impression by the passive way in which I played my turned set in that "strange 44 hand" thread that I started....heh

But there were a healthy dose of donks, fishies, and other poor playing players in these gams. Whew...Good to see...heh

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it was 6k hands btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

jesus...james and i used to play together and log similar hours. we'd log about 3k hands/day which was ALOT of poker. i know i was fried and needed to go get a drink after that (4 tabling party and 2 tabling other sites)

6k hands is an effing marathon...nicely done NLsoldier.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

It wasnt me, it was my roomate. But I was sitting next to him playing almost the whole time, just not as many tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was it derb or the other guy?

[Schneids]

derb

[Klepton]

i just went on a -100BB run over 700 hands, not fun, but the games were super juicy still

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
It sucks. How can I be expected to play poker with you sharks if I have to try cases and deal with unreasonable clients?!

TSP

[/ QUOTE ]

quite the lawyer gig. come to st. louis, play poker.

-Barron

[DcifrThs]

careful skp,

all that "heh"ing is libel to get astroglide's panties in a bunch.

-Barron

[Nightwish]

Well, I just crossed the 50,000 hand mark in this game, so I thought I'd give you guys an update (if anyone cares.....and if not, stop reading now).

My winrate is still fairly pathetic, but at least it's 1.37 BB/100 as opposed to the 0.89 BB/100 that it was before. Well, maybe "pathetic" is not the right word as I'm starting to believe that 1.5 BB/100 may actually be a good winrate in this game (bicyclekick's old post comes to mind here). My goal is still to make 2+, but it's going to be very, very tough to get there.

Anyone else willing to share his results? 50K+ hands only please.

[ike]

You own me. I'm at 1.34 after almost 60k hands. I 8table, so I'm perfectly happy with this winrate. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
You own me. I'm at 1.34 after almost 60k hands. I 8table, so I'm perfectly happy with this winrate. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
See, I told you not to call with 52o in the BB. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ike]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You own me. I'm at 1.34 after almost 60k hands. I 8table, so I'm perfectly happy with this winrate. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
See, I told you not to call with 52o in the BB. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

GODDAMNIT. If it weren't for the 2 BB I lost that hand.

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
My winrate is still fairly pathetic, but at least it's 1.37 BB/100 as opposed to the 0.89 BB/100 that it was before.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many tables are you playing on? 1.37 BB/100 is very respectable for 3+tables.

[joes28]

Im at 1.7/100 over 61k hands, down from 2.05 at 35k hands. This is 4 tabling 30/60 mix of longhand and shorthand.

[elmo]

62k hands 1.55 bb/100 8-tables

[bicyclekick]

[quoteWell, maybe "pathetic" is not the right word as I'm starting to believe that 1.5 BB/100 may actually be a good winrate in this game (bicyclekick's old post comes to mind here). My goal is still to make 2+, but it's going to be very, very tough to get there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I may not have 50k hands (33k), but damn I'm a good guesser. My bb/100 is exactly 1.5. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My winrate is still fairly pathetic, but at least it's 1.37 BB/100 as opposed to the 0.89 BB/100 that it was before.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many tables are you playing on? 1.37 BB/100 is very respectable for 3+tables.

[/ QUOTE ]
I 4-table.

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
62k hands 1.55 bb/100 8-tables

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a lot of money.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
62k hands 1.55 bb/100 8-tables

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a lot of money.

[/ QUOTE ]

So everyone on 2+2 beats this game? Who doesn't beat this game on 2+2?

[hockey1]

2.4 BB/100, 4 tabling, but only 20,000 hands. [Real work has been getting in the way].

I'm surprised, though, to read some of the top players say that this game is so tough that 1.5 BB/100 would be good. I feel like I've been running only about average, plus I've had three -70BB nights where just awful players (one night I was at a table with 3 players of VPIP 70%+, including one of 96) were hitting everything in sight.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I was running well until today...

KK 5x and lost 4 of them. 2x I was against AA, 1x vs AJ, A on the flop, then the worst of all. It's capped 3 ways. Flop is KJ7, flop is capped, turn is 7, turn is capped, river blank and capped, I lose to 77.

[/ QUOTE ]

i feel your pain.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did a lot of the higher stakes players "drop down" to the 30/60 when it opened up? There used to be a good number of okay 50/100, 80/160 and 100/200 games online, but now I can't find any in ET evenings, and I'm down 3.5 tabling it at 30/60. Well, I wanted to do that anyhow, since I had just experienced a ~500BB digger and needed to regroup.

cheers,
highland

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I think that's part of it. If Schneids and bicyclekick and fifteen other pros comes over from other sites and start 4+ tabling the 30/60, that's going to have an impact on the game. The player pool is not all *that* large.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think Schneids and Bicyclekick and the fifteen other pros should stay on Stars / UB...

i constantly run into very tough players/decisions on all 8 tables i play, sometimes more than one at a time.

even though i was soing VERY well in the first few weeks, i now also am up against some xtreme bad luck / skill streak.

the games must be tough, or i must be weak.

Kenny

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
2.4 BB/100, 4 tabling, but only 20,000 hands. [Real work has been getting in the way].

I'm surprised, though, to read some of the top players say that this game is so tough that 1.5 BB/100 would be good. I feel like I've been running only about average, plus I've had three -70BB nights where just awful players (one night I was at a table with 3 players of VPIP 70%+, including one of 96) were hitting everything in sight.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you haven't run bad yet. don't worry, you will. I'm only at 21k, 6k says I'm go's gift to variance and 15k are esesntialy breakeven. Woo.

[ike]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2.4 BB/100, 4 tabling, but only 20,000 hands. [Real work has been getting in the way].

I'm surprised, though, to read some of the top players say that this game is so tough that 1.5 BB/100 would be good. I feel like I've been running only about average, plus I've had three -70BB nights where just awful players (one night I was at a table with 3 players of VPIP 70%+, including one of 96) were hitting everything in sight.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you haven't run bad yet. don't worry, you will. I'm only at 21k, 6k says I'm go's gift to variance and 15k are esesntialy breakeven. Woo.

[/ QUOTE ]

In a summer of playing almost every day half my profit occurred in just over 24 hours...

[Jeffage]

Everyone on 2plus2 makes $500,000 a year playing online. Didn't you know that? /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Jeff

[DpR]

Dead on 2BB/100 after 40k+

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2.4 BB/100, 4 tabling, but only 20,000 hands. [Real work has been getting in the way].

I'm surprised, though, to read some of the top players say that this game is so tough that 1.5 BB/100 would be good. I feel like I've been running only about average, plus I've had three -70BB nights where just awful players (one night I was at a table with 3 players of VPIP 70%+, including one of 96) were hitting everything in sight.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you haven't run bad yet. don't worry, you will. I'm only at 21k, 6k says I'm go's gift to variance and 15k are esesntialy breakeven. Woo.

[/ QUOTE ]

In a summer of playing almost every day half my profit occurred in just over 24 hours...

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm, that summer on UB...I was derb that summer...quite a fun summer it was. yeah so 6k hands of 6+BB/100 and 15k of breakeven. I probably need to play more shorthanded

[ike]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2.4 BB/100, 4 tabling, but only 20,000 hands. [Real work has been getting in the way].

I'm surprised, though, to read some of the top players say that this game is so tough that 1.5 BB/100 would be good. I feel like I've been running only about average, plus I've had three -70BB nights where just awful players (one night I was at a table with 3 players of VPIP 70%+, including one of 96) were hitting everything in sight.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you haven't run bad yet. don't worry, you will. I'm only at 21k, 6k says I'm go's gift to variance and 15k are esesntialy breakeven. Woo.

[/ QUOTE ]

In a summer of playing almost every day half my profit occurred in just over 24 hours...

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm, that summer on UB...I was derb that summer...quite a fun summer it was. yeah so 6k hands of 6+BB/100 and 15k of breakeven. I probably need to play more shorthanded

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually meant this summer on party not last summer on UB. Though that was good times too.

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]

So everyone on 2+2 beats this game? Who doesn't beat this game on 2+2?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I may currently be unable to beat that game for a solid amount. I stepped down after 35K hands with a 0.5 BB/100 winrate. (I was at 2BB/100 for my first 20K hands.. then went on a -225BB downswing, some of which was bad luck, and some was being outplayed.)

I'm going to hang at the 15/30 and 20/40 for a bit longer before going back to the 30/60.

[JimmyV]

I ran really good out of the gate in this game, and still feel that I'm playing very well in it. Weathered a very big downswing two or three weeks ago (tons of tough beats, and some good laydowns blending over into weakness) and a smaller one that started Sunday and seems to have quite on Wednesday. So my gaudy numbers are starting to look sustainable:

1.45 BB/100 over 36,000 hands.

Oops, that's not 50K, is it? Oh well.

J

[Turning Stone Pro]

Good news: I've won enough at the PP 30 this year to pay off my mortgage and law school loan.

Bad news: I have decided to get out of the kiddie pool and start making some moves in the PP big games.

TSP

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone on 2plus2 makes $500,000 a year playing online. Didn't you know that? /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Can someone teach me, so I don't suck anymore?

[skp]

That's my take as well. I only have 12k hands at 30-60 and therefore the 2.4bb/100 that I am sporting is essentially meaningless. But I would say that I generally get a good feel pretty quickly of where I stand in relation to the competition and I think that 2.0bb/100 is achievable with relative ease in the long run assuming that the level of competition remains the same.

I had earlier estimated that 2.75bb/100 is where I would likely end up at in the 15 games.

By the by, from a bb/100 standpoint, there is less variance in the 30 games as opposed to the 15 games. That is an attractive and comforting feature of the games once you get over the fact that from a $ perspective, the variance is greater in the 30 games for obvious reasons.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
I get about 250 hands per hour 4 tabling, so about $150/hr 4 tabling at 1BB/100. I'm sure I am not nearly the player you or Peter are and if you guys are struggling to get 1BB in this game, it makes me wonder if this is one of those games/levels that's just better off skipped, like the old 10/20 full.

Aren't solid NL players making about this much 4 tabling at even the $600 tables? I don't know much about NL win rates so I may be way off here, someone correct me if I am wrong. Is NL a better road to more $/hr at lower risk/variance?

Also, is 4 tables reasonably the max for the 30, or can 6 be played without too much decline in WR? Anyone here doing 6 or more? I'm assuming you can't auto-pilot too much in this game if it's this tough.

Nigel

[/ QUOTE ]

Variance is much lower at NL.

The win rates you're quoting are fairly high for $600 but attainable.

You can do significantly better in $1000 or $2000 games, though you get back into high variance territory up there.

[Equal]

Hey skp, good to see you posting here. You playing at River Rock lately?

Anyway, I'm one on the ones that lost at 30/60. I think my BB was -4/100 for a few thousands hands. Ran poorly, and the better players made me retreat for now to other places.

[skp]

Hi Equal,

The last time I was at the Rock was the day 5 or 6 weeks ago that I introduced myself to you.

I play almost exclusively online now although only about 10 to 15 hours a week.

Your run On party 30 was probably just that - a bad run. personally, I think the 40-80 at River Rock plays much tougher than 30-60 Party (although that 20-40 at the River Rock seems pretty juicy as do the 20-40 kill games at the Holiday Inn from what little of it I have seen).

[ALL1N]

3.2 BB/100 after 36k.

[Erik W]

Fish gone (http://www.nunnie.com/dying.html)

Either this or the sharks ate'em.