A slow play that went well

[Roland]

People who limp in with strong hands drive me nuts… /images/graemlins/grin.gif
Discuss.




7 Card Stud High ($10/$20), Ante $1, Bring-In $3 (hand converter (http://www.geocities.com/greenage22/7StudConverter.hta.txt))

3rd Street - (0.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___folds
Hero: Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls
Seat 3: xx xx T/images/graemlins/club.gif___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds
Seat 5: xx xx T/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/club.gif___brings-in

4th Street - (1.50 SB)

Hero: Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets
Seat 8: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls

5th Street - (2.25 BB)

Hero: Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif___checks___raises
Seat 5: xx xx T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif___bets___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif___raises___calls

6th Street - (11.25 BB)

Hero: Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks
Seat 5: xx xx T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks
Seat 8: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks

River - (11.25 BB)

Hero: Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___checks
Seat 5: xx xx T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif xx___checks
Seat 8: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif xx___checks

Total pot: (11.25 BB)

[bigredlemon]

Isn't that a bit risky? I usually in with guns blazing and someone always end up hitting a baby two pair. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Bartholow]

This hand "went well"?

[bigredlemon]

first time I read it, I thought it said "went to hell"

[Roland]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand "went well"?

[/ QUOTE ]


Oops…I should have chosen a different title.
It obviously didn’t go as well as it could have gone, but I won the pot.

[Roland]

[ QUOTE ]
first time I read it, I thought it said "went to hell"

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Andy B]

Third street: puke.

Fourth street: puke.

Fifth street: from the slow-play-until-you're-beaten-and-then-raise school.

Sixth: fine.

Seventh: fine.

Showdown: nice hand, sir. Well played.


Puke.

[BTirish]

Oh come on... tell us how you really feel, Andy. Can this be a part of the sticky? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[BeerMoney]

Please read my brass balls post.

[Doctavian]

Dear Danny,

Let’s do the math. The mathematical (delta change) loss in card power between starting with a pair of queens versus stating with a pair of Aces is the same as the degree of the loss in power, of starting with a pair of queens and dropping down to a pair of FOURS. Queens is NOT a big Broadway pair. Aces and Kings are.

What does that mean? It means that the weaker your “big” pair is, the more aggressive you have to be to protect them. Queens do markedly worse in multi-way pots than Aces and Kings do.

And since there is such a high bias for low limit players to call hands which have an ace or king in the hole, if someone spikes an over card during the hand, you can be in a world of hurt in the blink of an eye.

Not only that but your starting position was “gun left” and you had 4 four under door cards behind you!

Then on Fourth Street you slow played again. Classic game theory is that you push big door pairs UNTIL Fourth Street and then you back off if you haven’t hit your set or second pair. Not only that but you gave a possible four-flush a cheep draw rather than forcing him or her to pay the maximum to draw out on you. Which violates another one of the cardinal principles of card theory.

Now on fifth street with no set, no possible flush or straight draw and no second pair (when you have lost most all of the pot equity that you did have on third and fourth street) and when card provability dictates that you should call out, you decide that this is the time you should re-raise a player that just hit an blank 6. What is he/she raising with? Most likely a set since he has no apparent draw and two unrelated babies in front? He should at LEAST have two pair which is stronger that your present holding. And your other opponent had already come out betting. In all likely hood you should be third in a third way race at this time. The fact that he didn’t have the set doesn’t justify your action. Throwing AWAY your hand here would be a much stronger move than re-raising.

You violated most every principle of card theory and took the pot with an unimproved small Broadway pair.
I might be wrong but I think that that is why Andy was not supportive of your action.

A different approach might be to save your slow plays for Big starting sets, or pocket aces and small sets out of early positions, which you plan, on check raising with.

Thank you for sharing this interesting hand with us.

For the record there are very few sessions that I look back on with out remembering a hand which I wonder “what was I thinking “ when I review my action after the session.


Most sincerely,

Doc AZ

[Bartholow]

Ok, really:

3rd: I'd just raise every time. I suppose it's a question of how much you want to give up for metagame considerations, but in general I'm agin it.

4th: Wouldn't you at least consider betting right there even if you had nothing? I guess you can argue that with the 2-flush showing you wouldn't, but if you keep the pot small it's usually so you can get away without making a big mistake on 5th...

5th: I actually think this is fine. Plenty of raising on 5th with one pair to get headsup etc. Calling would be awful, folding wouldn't be terrible given how small the pot is.

6th: Given your read on 5th you have to bet one more time here IMHO.

7th: I'd check too.

[10-20Jerome]

I wouldnt make a habit out of that. If so youll pay for it in the long run /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif