Getting bet into with marginal hands [Archive]

J.R.

06-23-2005, 05:06 PM

3 hands- kinda similar theme: one a river fold, one a call down, one a turn semi-bluff. Comments appreciated!

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Hand 1

Opponent is like 44/22/2.5./ 40 wtsd over 300 datamined hands. Only prior hand of note he raised utg+1, I 3-bet (AQ), he capped and lead all 3 streets into me on A high flop with QQ (I waited until river to raise, which was a Q- boo for me). I had been raising a lot and had folded when played back at by others but had also won some big pots getting no respect but who knows how much he paid attention. he was tenaciously pushing.

Turn/river combo of particular interest? fold turn or raise turn? call or maybe raise river? How to play turn if not lead into, I'm think check if a spade, bet if not.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, Button folds, BB calls.

Turn: (5.20 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.20 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero folds

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Hand 2

Taggy opponent- 23/17/2.4 and playerview's check-raise stat of 10 over about 1.5K hands. Can I do anything else given no clubs hit? Is it a turn fold if no flush draw on flop?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero caps, SB calls.

Flop: (9 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

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Hand 3

21/14/1.9 opponent. My river bet blows (I play real bad sometimes, still working on keeping my head in the game at all times), but what of waiting until the turn- is that a transparent (and thus worthless) semi-bluff?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

sthief09

06-23-2005, 05:20 PM

hand 1: I like
hand 2: I call down too. gut shots are possible too
hand 3: how about a call-call-call. I don't think he folds an A there given that board and it's even less likely because he'll sometimes have a /images/graemlins/heart.gif kicker

[ QUOTE ]

(I play real bad sometimes, still working on keeping my head in the game at all times)

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear that

Surfbullet

06-23-2005, 09:15 PM

Hand1 I can intellectually agree with. Hand2 I think we're toast here very often - villain is a TAG who 3bet us pf and checkraised us after we capped...he's not LAG, hes TAG...he might pull some stunts occasionally with a flush draw but i'm not liking our chances - I'd much rather call down hand 1 where we've got a showdownable hand.

Hand3 I think i'd just call and fold the river UI - after he calls your turn raise he's calling a river bet with AQ or whatever so don't bother betting.

Surf

rtrombone

06-24-2005, 09:31 AM

In hand 1 my default is to raise the turn and fold to a 3-bet. If he pulls a stop and go on the river I fold. If he checks the river you can make a thin value bet but it's close.

If he checks the turn I'm betting pretty much anything. I don't see why you'd check a spade.

In hand 2 if you're going to call him down shouldn't you raise the turn? This way you make an extra bet if the river is an ace or king. Against tight players I don't think it's bad to call the turn and fold the river unimproved. This is where it helps to know your opponent's W$SD% when he's the bettor.

In hand 3 my default is to raise the flop in an attempt for a free card on the turn. Fold the river unimproved; the only hands you beat are KQ, KJs and the like.

Turn raises are viewed with such suspicion that it's usually not worth running bluffs on that street. Particularly in blind defense hands.