77 [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

View Full Version : 77

adamstewart

06-23-2005, 02:39 PM

no reads yet.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG raises, MP calls, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, .....

Surfbullet

06-23-2005, 02:52 PM

Boooo flop call.

You don't have outs to draw if you are behind. If you are ahead, you are letting the PFR behind you see a turn cheaply. Raise if you think you are ahead of MP enough ( he's aggressive enough to bet all sorts of draws, or will autobet when checked to, etc) or fold otherwise.

As for the turn, one of MPs likely draws just got there..the only worse cards are the A/images/graemlins/heart.gif and the 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif...

it's doubtful he's got a BS hand enough to warrant continuing, but if you judge it to be so let him bet the turn again, when you bet he folds his bluff holdings and raises (or calls and lets you continue betting while behind) his hands that beat you. A 6 is a possibility but he'll keep betting that anyway so let him do so.

Surf

DMBFan23

06-23-2005, 02:55 PM

pretty tough flop with two cards in the playing zone...if MP had bet a rag flop then easy raise, if he bet an AKQ flop then easy fold, but this one is right in between...I think I like a flop fold, I've been trying to pick my spots with these hands lately, going after people more on raggy boards

adamstewart

06-23-2005, 05:40 PM

bump

sthief09

06-23-2005, 05:42 PM

getting raised there sucks so bad, so I check call

sthief09

06-23-2005, 05:43 PM

check-raising the flop leads to all kinds of bad stuff happening like getting 3-bet and still being unsure of where you are. I don't mind folding, but I think he can toss in a call. having the other guy in there sucks and might actually make me fold. yeah, I fold because of that guy. closing the action headsup I call

Subby

06-23-2005, 06:02 PM

I love your turn bet. Amazing how often representing the made flush on the turn will push folks out of the pot...

Surfbullet

06-23-2005, 06:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I love your turn bet. Amazing how often representing the made flush on the turn will push folks out of the pot...

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/confused.gif

We're not folding a better hand. We'd like something like KJ to take another stab at the pot incorrectly - the only advantage is to charge something like a big lone heart or 89/JQ, but they'll so often bet anyway it doesn't matter much.

Surf

adamstewart

06-23-2005, 07:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love your turn bet. Amazing how often representing the made flush on the turn will push folks out of the pot...

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/confused.gif

We're not folding a better hand. We'd like something like KJ to take another stab at the pot incorrectly - the only advantage is to charge something like a big lone heart or 89/JQ, but they'll so often bet anyway it doesn't matter much.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

I get the feeling from some of your recent replies that you're missing out on value bets.

This isn't 10-player anymore... a pair of 7's will often be the best hand, heads up.

My turn bet was a semi-bluff/value bet.

Adam

PokerBob

06-23-2005, 07:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
no reads yet.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG raises, MP calls, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, .....

[/ QUOTE ]

I c/r the flop here.

PokerBob

06-23-2005, 07:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I get the feeling from some of your recent replies that you're missing out on value bets.

This isn't 10-player anymore... a pair of 7's will often be the best hand, heads up.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is true, why are you letting him draw with infinite odds by just calling the flop??? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

sthief09

06-23-2005, 07:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I get the feeling from some of your recent replies that you're missing out on value bets.

This isn't 10-player anymore... a pair of 7's will often be the best hand, heads up.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is true, why are you letting him draw with infinite odds by just calling the flop??? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

why are you assuming our opponent is the one getting the infinite odds?

PokerBob

06-23-2005, 07:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I get the feeling from some of your recent replies that you're missing out on value bets.

This isn't 10-player anymore... a pair of 7's will often be the best hand, heads up.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is true, why are you letting him draw with infinite odds by just calling the flop??? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

why are you assuming our opponent is the one getting the infinite odds?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because villain has already placed his bet in the pot, thus if he has a hand like AQ, he is seeing the turn "for free". Also the OP feels he is likely ahead here, so why not charge the guy to see the next card?

sthief09

06-23-2005, 07:33 PM

shorthanded, when people raise they generally go to river, especially when all overcard combinations have a gut shot or OESD. charging him on the flop when he's going to the river anway should only be done if you feel like you have the best hand the vast majority of the time, considering if you're ahead he probably has 10 outs

Surfbullet

06-23-2005, 09:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
shorthanded, when people raise they generally go to river, especially when all overcard combinations have a gut shot or OESD. charging him on the flop when he's going to the river anway should only be done if you feel like you have the best hand the vast majority of the time, considering if you're ahead he probably has 10 outs

[/ QUOTE ]

The flop bettor is not the preflop raiser, which drastically changes the range of hands we can put him on - if he were the pfr this would apply better.

Surf

Surfbullet

06-23-2005, 09:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love your turn bet. Amazing how often representing the made flush on the turn will push folks out of the pot...

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/confused.gif

We're not folding a better hand. We'd like something like KJ to take another stab at the pot incorrectly - the only advantage is to charge something like a big lone heart or 89/JQ, but they'll so often bet anyway it doesn't matter much.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

I get the feeling from some of your recent replies that you're missing out on value bets.

This isn't 10-player anymore... a pair of 7's will often be the best hand, heads up.

My turn bet was a semi-bluff/value bet.

Adam

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I may be missing value bets, i'm getting a bit gunshy from all the losing i've been doing.

However, this is a bet from a player who is not the preflop raiser, so it's less likely to be a continuation bet. Furthermore, it's a 3way pot on the flop, so while 77 is a good hand when there are 2 overs that are right in the middle of the range of a calling player's hands, it's very likely our opponent has made a better hand than ours.

While it's possible he's betting a draw, the most likely one just came in on the turn. Unless we are putting the villain on utter garbage a high % of the time I don't see how our hand is best to warrant value betting.

I realize this isn't 10 handed..i've been playing shorthanded poker for about 80,000 hands. Thanks for the advice however, I'll work on my value bets more next session.

Surf

sthief09

06-23-2005, 09:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
shorthanded, when people raise they generally go to river, especially when all overcard combinations have a gut shot or OESD. charging him on the flop when he's going to the river anway should only be done if you feel like you have the best hand the vast majority of the time, considering if you're ahead he probably has 10 outs

[/ QUOTE ]

The flop bettor is not the preflop raiser, which drastically changes the range of hands we can put him on - if he were the pfr this would apply better.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

OOPS

PokerBob

06-23-2005, 09:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
shorthanded, when people raise they generally go to river, especially when all overcard combinations have a gut shot or OESD. charging him on the flop when he's going to the river anway should only be done if you feel like you have the best hand the vast majority of the time, considering if you're ahead he probably has 10 outs

[/ QUOTE ]

The flop bettor is not the preflop raiser, which drastically changes the range of hands we can put him on - if he were the pfr this would apply better.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

OOPS

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, OOPS. I fold the flop.

dantheman_05

06-23-2005, 09:53 PM

i think check raising this flop is a mistake. this flop hits a lot of hands. there are too many possible draws and made hands out there.

sam h

06-24-2005, 12:31 AM

Were I to call this flop, then betting seems better than checking once the PFR strangely folds.

But I don't like the flop call at all.

PokerBob

06-24-2005, 12:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i think check raising this flop is a mistake. this flop hits a lot of hands. there are too many possible draws and made hands out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I misread the OP, and thought the pf raiser bet. Since the bet come from other dude, I fold.

dhaimon

06-24-2005, 02:56 AM

This flop call is pretty bad. A crapload of times the PFR is looking for a checkraise here, also you might already be way behind MP.

adamstewart

06-24-2005, 10:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A crapload of times the PFR is looking for a checkraise here

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this will occur that often here, if at all. Preflop raiser only has MP to act behind him in this three-handed pot. He has no reason to think MP will bet if checked to, so this is not a good spot for a check-raise attempt, at all.

That said, I'm not really liking this hand, which is why I posted it.

Adam