Hands from the WSOP (Hand #4)

[sirio11]

Event: WSOP#4 $1500 Limit Holdem

6th level, the 3 players involved have deep stacks.

A is in the BB, B is in MP, C is in the button.

Player B open-raises, Player C calls, player A calls.

Flop: 872, A checks, B checks, C checks.
Turn: 2 A checks, B checks, C checks.
River: 3 A checks, B bets, C thinks and decide to call, A thinks and fold.

Player B: KT
Player C: KQ

[dmk]

player A needs to bet the flop or turn

odd call by C on the river w/ player A left to act, i know i woudln't be able to make it. i probably wouldn't have bet as B either though, because i'm a limit tourney fish.

[bruce]

I guess you can never be to careful.

If I am the raiser I will fire a barrel on the flop and perhaps even the turn.

From button's perspective, if he is loose enough to call with KQ BTF on the button there's no way he will fold K high on the river with no previous action. I think this is a good call by him on the river. I don't like how the original raiser played the hand. He open raises with a hand that can
be too easily dominated then he checks the hand the whole way until the river when he makes a futile steal against a loose player.

Bruce

[freehat]

player b has got to bet the flop

[Mammux]

Maybe C would expect B to check(-call?) on the river with A-high, while he would bet with K-high? Some players follow that pattern.

-Magnus

[WillMagic]

B manages to misplay every single postflop street.

C should probably bet the flop.

I need to play the limit hold'em events at the WSOP.

Will

[sirio11]

The players involved in this hand were

Player B = Christian Van Hees (http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=4833) 5th place in this event.

Player C = David Cossio (http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=20287)

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe C would expect B to check(-call?) on the river with A-high, while he would bet with K-high? Some players follow that pattern.

-Magnus

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, the river bet does not make much sense, if he has a little pair or A high, he's not value betting.

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
B manages to misplay every single postflop street.

C should probably bet the flop.

I need to play the limit hold'em events at the WSOP.

Will

[/ QUOTE ]

If I bet the flop, I was pretty sure Christian was going to raise, so, why give him the chance?

[WillMagic]

Well, here's the reason:

Christian is announcing major weakness with his flop check. He should really be leading here 100% of the time, and I can only see checking because he thinks you have middle pair (what else is he going to put you on when you coldcall preflop.)

So bet. And what do you really lose by betting here? Your bet has a solid chance to take down the pot by itself, and getting check-raised by christian isn't a disaster either, and I find it EXTREMELY unlikely.

BTW I would not coldcall preflop. If Christian is a loose raiser then three-bet, if not then fold.

You did make an excellent call on the river though.

One final point - you might get much better responses if you posted this in mid-high stakes limit.

Will

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
Christian is announcing major weakness with his flop check. He should really be leading here 100% of the time, and I can only see checking because he thinks you have middle pair (what else is he going to put you on when you coldcall preflop.)


[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily, I could have AK,AQ,AJ,KQs; and I think he has the best chance to win if he check-raised the flop. Since after his checking in the flop, I was supposed to bet in last position, and then he could raise me and lead in the turn and make me fold a lot of hands.
And I have the aditional problem of the guy in the BB, he checked the flop because Christian was the original raiser.
Christian was a loose raiser at this point, he and Alan Goehring were playing a lot of pots; 3-betting before the flop was an option; I prefer calling against these kind of players.

BTW, Why do you think the mid-high forum may get better responses? I haven't posted there, maybe I should check it out.

[wheelz]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, Why do you think the mid-high forum may get better responses? I haven't posted there, maybe I should check it out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Firstly, it wouldn't have taken till the bottom of the first page for someone to comment on the coldcall preflop /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[bugstud]

I actually like your play of KQ here, resembles bicyclekick's play of AQo in hand from the event as well. Often coldcalling gives you a better shot to misrepresent your hand and win the pot, compared to 3betting.

[wheelz]

Yeah, I don't think the coldcall is that bad in this particular hand either. I was just expecting someone to talk about it earlier.

[WillMagic]

[ QUOTE ]
Not necessarily, I could have AK,AQ,AJ,KQs; and I think he has the best chance to win if he check-raised the flop.

Since after his checking in the flop, I was supposed to bet in last position, and then he could raise me and lead in the turn and make me fold a lot of hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is my question to you:

Do you think he would check the flop if he had a pair?

Because it's an awful play if he would. If you check he's given not one, but two players free cards. His flop check almost certainly means overcards, and he's given up the lead. So bet. If he check-raises then three-bet, and lead the turn. He clearly thinks you have middle pair, don't give him a reason to think otherwise.

Why post in mid-high stakes? Because this hand is just a basic limit hand...there aren't any special tourney considerations if all three players have big stacks. And, while there aren't a lot of limit hold'em experts in MTT, there are a bunch in mid-high.

Definitely repost this hand in mid-high...but make sure you don't mention Christian's holdings. Just present the hand from your point of view the whole way through.

Will