Sox Bullpen Questions

[sam h]

If the sox get the pen straightened out, I can't see them losing the east. But so many questions...

How much longer should Theo/Terry wait before cutting their losses with Embree? What do you do with Foulke? Who should be bumped to the pen when Schill comes back, and in what role? Who is available on the trade market? What about this kid Hanson?

[kerssens]

Pretend you're Boston's GM and I'm the Mariners GM. I'm offering you Eddie Guardado. Who do you send in return?

[sam h]

Guardado is the best guy I could think of who might be available. If I'm Theo, I wouldn't want to give up Hanley Ramirez or Dustin Pedroia - the two top prospects in the system - but would be willing to deal 2-3 other prospects, probably one top notch and the others more average, to get that done.

Guardado is actually a perfect fit since he could take Embree's place as the left-handed set up man or close if Foulke continues to implode.

[sublime]

How much longer should Theo/Terry wait before cutting their losses with Embree?

last week. embree generally has a 'dry' spell that lands him on the DL at some point. when he comes back he is effective again (effective for him anyways). it seems that the sox are going to just ride it out. as much as i hate seeing embree warm up and enter the game, as of right now there just isn't much else available. its a sellers market when it comes to even semi effective relievers.

What do you do with Foulke?

Just let him pitch. See above answer I suppose. Just hopefully he pithces his way out of whatever funk he is in. Occasionly you see his fastball back up at 88-89, then the next game its 86 again.

Who should be bumped to the pen when Schill comes back, and in what role?

arroyo. he will be the guy that comes in when the starter just doesn't have it, or has a high pitch count in the 5th or 6th. plus he will be an 'emergency' starter.

Who is available on the trade market?

overpriced dudes more than likely.

What about this kid Hanson?

that's asking an awful lot of a young man. who knows though.

once schilling comes back (when hes 90-95%) the burden on the bullpen will be eased (less innings pitched per week, arroyo)

also, the bullpen has been shaky, but dint be surprised if the sox acquire more offensive power in lieu of pitching. the cost is always lower, and the selection greater.

[sam h]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do with Foulke?

Just let him pitch. See above answer I suppose. Just hopefully he pithces his way out of whatever funk he is in. Occasionly you see his fastball back up at 88-89, then the next game its 86 again.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that this is the only answer right now but its pretty nerve wracking. What do you think the chances are that he was on the juice and that the fastball just isn't coming back? If your best pitch is a changeup but suddenly there is only a couple MPH difference between it and the fastball, I don't think you can be very successful.

[ QUOTE ]
Who should be bumped to the pen when Schill comes back, and in what role?

arroyo. he will be the guy that comes in when the starter just doesn't have it, or has a high pitch count in the 5th or 6th. plus he will be an 'emergency' starter.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not so sure. I think I would bump Miller at this point since Arroyo is a better pitcher and somebody who, if throwing well at the time, I might want starting a playoff game.

What do you think about getting Guardado? Any trade rumors in Boston? Its hard to keep tabs out on the west coast.

[Toro]

Wakefield goes to pen for 2 reasons. He's been the most inconsistent starter and he is also the most versatile and can and has pitched in all forms of relief(long, middle and closer).

[sublime]

I agree that this is the only answer right now but its pretty nerve wracking. What do you think the chances are that he was on the juice and that the fastball just isn't coming back? If your best pitch is a changeup but suddenly there is only a couple MPH difference between it and the fastball, I don't think you can be very successful.

I dunno, no one can say for sure but i am not so auick to label players who are struggling steriod abusers. a bigger factor might be the amount of work foulke put in last postseason. lets just hope he turns it around.

I'm not so sure. I think I would bump Miller at this point since Arroyo is a better pitcher and somebody who, if throwing well at the time, I might want starting a playoff game.

I am pretty sure it will be Arroyo. Its not just who is a better pitcher right now, but who can handle the transition to the bullpen easier. im pretty sure the sox dont want to mess up millers comeback by usuing him 3-4 times a week.

What do you think about getting Guardado? Any trade rumors in Boston? Its hard to keep tabs out on the west coast.

i would love "EveryDay" EG, but im sure the mariners will be asking for a lot. while the sox have the second highest payroll in the majors, they cant afford to be as freespending as the NYY. i prefer they sell high and buy low. as for rumors, i dunno. i dont pay much attention to them as 95% of the time they dont pan out.

[sublime]

Wakefield goes to pen for 2 reasons.

he doesnt go for two reasons. hes awful to have on the mound with inherited baserunners and mirabelli catches him much better (not to mention its an excuse to rest JV once a week)

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
Wakefield goes to pen for 2 reasons.

he doesnt go for two reasons. hes awful to have on the mound with inherited baserunners and mirabelli catches him much better (not to mention its an excuse to rest JV once a week)

[/ QUOTE ]

Good points, but the only other option is Arroyo and if he continues to pitch as he has his last couple starts, I don't see how Francona takes him out of the rotation.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wakefield goes to pen for 2 reasons.

he doesnt go for two reasons. hes awful to have on the mound with inherited baserunners and mirabelli catches him much better (not to mention its an excuse to rest JV once a week)

[/ QUOTE ]

Good points, but the only other option is Arroyo and if he continues to pitch as he has his last couple starts, I don't see how Francona takes him out of the rotation.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, im not thrilled about it but its the only move that makes sense. also, with wells/miller and schilling as 3 of your five starters methinks worrying about using 6 starters is a good problem to have.

[sam h]

[ QUOTE ]
Good points, but the only other option is Arroyo and if he continues to pitch as he has his last couple starts, I don't see how Francona takes him out of the rotation.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why I wouldn't count out Miller. Arroyo has the most upside as a starter and bringing Wake into relief causes a lot of headaches. Seems like Miller is still building back his arm strength anyway and using him twice a week for an inning or two wouldn't be that bad.

[sublime]

Kotsay rumors, only cuz u asked (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=makingaplayforkotsayyank&prov=tsn&type=l gns)

[sublime]

Ted Lilly (http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists/Elliott/2005/06/22/1099496-sun.html)

[contentless]

[ QUOTE ]
How much longer should Theo/Terry wait before cutting their losses with Embree?

[/ QUOTE ]

Change is coming soon.

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do with Foulke?

[/ QUOTE ]
Foulke, while his results don't seem to indicate him coming around, is getting better. Any change with Foulke is unlikely.

[ QUOTE ]
Who should be bumped to the pen when Schill comes back, and in what role?

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a 'should' question, but the Arroyo 'will' be bumped to the pen. Theo/Francona have all but guaranteed it.

[ QUOTE ]
What about this kid Hanson?

[/ QUOTE ]
September call-up.

[sublime]

Change is coming soon.

you are basing this on what? when epstein said changes are immenent? please....

September call-up.

again, where are you getting this info? he is represented by scott boras, previosly turned down a 2.8m sigining bonus and GUARANTEED callup by the marlins, he also has already pitched a decent amount this year. i have my doubts if he even is signed by september, let alone pitches in the majors.

i dont mean to sould like an ass, but i cant stand when people throw up words without the slightest bit of facts behind them.

[contentless]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont mean to sould like an ass, but i cant stand when people throw up words without the slightest bit of facts behind them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mean to sound like an ass, but I don't really have a history of that.

Don't be a [censored] idiot. If Epstein says that change is imminent and coming, what the [censored] do you think he's talking about? Our [censored] catching situation? What do we have to do, put it out on a [censored] plate for you? We can do this together, if I hold your hands.

Which part of the team needs the most work? Bull....pen....
Who is the worst performing member of the bullpen? Em...bree...

Now what do mother [censored] Theo say? "If this is the best that this pitching staff can pitch, then I really miscalculated and it's time for changes...We're out of games. It's time for changes. Soon."

Now what did I say, mother fucker? "Change is coming soon."

Some people. [censored] god.

As for Hansen, two things.
1) Hansen was THE MOST MAJORS READY PITCHER IN THE DRAFT. He's not Stephen [censored] Drew. Majors ready means something, and it means something even more when you draft him. You don't draft a hard to sign guy who's ready for the bigs and just let him get old. These people aren't [censored] idiots.

2) Do you read the paper? There's a reason that Damon hasn't gotten a contract extension yet, and that talks are damn slow, and here's a hint why: He. Wants. A. Lot. Of. Money. And who's his agent? You mother [censored] guessed it, you whore.

Now the Sox have a huge mother [censored] payroll, but it's been well managed recently. Now Damon isn't asking for exorbitant sums. So why do the Sox have this problem?

You can do it!

And while you're [censored] racking your brain, go read a Sox message board, you fucker.

[sublime]

Now what did I say, mother fucker? "Change is coming soon."

he made those comments over 10 days ago. read my post, what 'changes' are going to be made? who is going to come in and take embrees role? did you see the game last night when he was brought with the bases loaded in a tie game? wow, lot of change since Theo's press conference. its called a motivational tactic. that has worked to some degree.

1) Hansen was THE MOST MAJORS READY PITCHER IN THE DRAFT. He's not Stephen [censored] Drew. Majors ready means something, and it means something even more when you draft him. You don't draft a hard to sign guy who's ready for the bigs and just let him get old. These people aren't [censored] idiots.

you apparently are. the man will not pitch without a contract. he has turned down VERY good offers in the past, yet you post that he will be playing in 2.5 months, despite A) having an agent who squeezes every last penny out of owners. B) having pitched a full college season already. also waiting a full offseason and letting the kid pitch is spring training, with some winterball isnt exactly letting him get old.

2) Do you read the paper? There's a reason that Damon hasn't gotten a contract extension yet, and that talks are damn slow, and here's a hint why: He. Wants. A. Lot. Of. Money. And who's his agent? You mother [censored] guessed it, you whore.

yes, scott boras. sounds like you are making your my point about hansen FOR me.

Now the Sox have a huge mother [censored] payroll, but it's been well managed recently. Now Damon isn't asking for exorbitant sums. So why do the Sox have this problem?

are you drunk or something? what are you talking about. let me run this down again....

you- he will be called up in September
me- no he wont, he has a ballbreaker for an agent and has already pitched a lot this year.
you- [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored]. johnny damon has the same agent and he wants a lot of money. [censored] [censored] [censored]. so yeah, he will be up in September because i read somewhere he was the most MAJORS READY player in the draft. johhny damnon wants a big contract. [censored] [censored] [censored].

next time you want to look witty, do some homework. you just got owned kid.

[contentless]

[ QUOTE ]
that has worked to some degree.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. Embree raised his ERA again. FROM 7.20. Do you actually watch the games?

[ QUOTE ]
he has turned down VERY good offers in the past

[/ QUOTE ]
This is some of the best logic yet. He's turned down good offers in the past, therefore...do you seriously think you're that smart?

[ QUOTE ]
also waiting a full offseason and letting the kid pitch is spring training, with some winterball isnt exactly letting him get old.

[/ QUOTE ]
You realize that the most 'majors ready' pitcher isn't necessarily the pitcher with the most potential, right? I hope you can continue with this train of thought too.

[ QUOTE ]
yes, scott boras. sounds like you are making your my point about hansen FOR me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not really. It indicates that they're actually putting the Damon negotiations on hiatus until they sign Hansen. And since Damon's contract is over after this season, you can bet that they're going to get Hansen's deal done before the season ends, so that they can make good on actually extending Damon's contract.

[ QUOTE ]
you just got owned kid.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you talk this way in real life? Because that makes you like a huge ass. "Lemme tell you a joke: Blah blah blah, oh I'm so funny!"

Seriously, do some thinking on your own. Getting him signed now is the same as getting him signed after the season is over. There's no difference. And they're actually working on a deal, since Damon's is not going anywhere until they iron out Hansen's.

As for Embree...I mean, since Theo's talk, he's given up 5 runs in 4 1/3 innings. Which has raised his ERA. Not sure what point you were trying to make by 'motivational', but relief pitchers don't have 3 month long slumps and just 'get away with it'. There WILL be another lefty in place of Embree soon. Think, so you can be!

And next time, don't prematurely bump the Yankees thread either, tool. Because you look like an idiot, sublime.

[sublime]

Yeah. Embree raised his ERA again. FROM 7.20. Do you actually watch the games?

he was addressing the team. they have won 9/10 games since then. again, i said some degree. WHERE IS THE CHANGE? stop pulling [censored] out of your ass.

This is some of the best logic yet. He's turned down good offers in the past, therefore...do you seriously think you're that smart?

ummm yes.

You realize that the most 'majors ready' pitcher isn't necessarily the pitcher with the most potential, right? I hope you can continue with this train of thought too.

okay, so they drafted this college kid to help 'this' years team? lol, your an idiot.

Not really. It indicates that they're actually putting the Damon negotiations on hiatus until they sign Hansen. And since Damon's contract is over after this season, you can bet that they're going to get Hansen's deal done before the season ends, so that they can make good on actually extending Damon's contract.

Damon was talking about an extension LONG before the draft. even if the hammer out a deal for hansen TODAY, he will not go right to the majors. the simple fact is, you read somewhere that hansen was the most majors ready pitcher and decided you would look witty by saying he will be a call up in September. without taking into account the FACTS, which again are A) hes not signed B)he pitched a full season already. again, i called you on just pulling [censored] out of your ass. there have been no indications that changes are going to be made to the bullpen. while they *may* make changes, the simple fact is more than likely this is what the sox have to work with.

Seriously, do some thinking on your own. Getting him signed now is the same as getting him signed after the season is over. There's no difference. And they're actually working on a deal, since Damon's is not going anywhere until they iron out Hansen's.

lets add up the variables here. a young kid who can help a team sooner rather than later (by sooner i mean next season) who has turned down a previous deal that was price AND guaranteed a call up. he also has one of the toughest agents in the industry. all this adds up to a quick deal and him pitching in 2.5 months......riiiiiiiigggght.

also, damon will more than likely NOT be here next year. the sox will not pay him the money he wants. why do you keep dragging his name into this? you think he hasn't been signed to an extension because of hansen? lol, has a LITTLE more to do with the fact that he is having a career year would be demanding a contract that would be based on his current achievements rather than future performance.

ok, i'm done making you look silly. go to bed sonny.

[sublime]

couple of more points.

i agree with you, embree SHOULD go. i just dont think he will. there are too many teams who believe they are in contention, which both limits the pool of available players and drives up the price of those that are available. hence, i dont think changes are going to occur soon. possibly towards the deadline when a few times drop off etc.

i also dont think your an idiot. no hard feelings /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[sublime]

update for sam-

gammons was just on eei, and while i take what he says with a grain of salt his take on the bullpen situstions were:

-sox want to improve the bullpen, just dont have any options. he doubts anything will be done before the trade deadline.

-a quote from scott boras "hansen isnt as ready for the majors as most think' which is probably a brgaining tactic, but also speaks volumes about how difficult getting him signed is going to be. -

i saw Pedroia at bat for the first time last night on NESN. dude is one small fcuker! he went 2-4 with a double and two runs scored.

[BigD226]

[ QUOTE ]
If the sox get the pen straightened out, I can't see them losing the east. But so many questions...

How much longer should Theo/Terry wait before cutting their losses with Embree? What do you do with Foulke? Who should be bumped to the pen when Schill comes back, and in what role? Who is available on the trade market? What about this kid Hanson?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but quick thoughts...

I think Embree is sticking around, he's showing very positive signs of getting it back together, although there's still a ways to go. Halama is the one that needs to be cut yesterday...he's definitely gone when Schilling comes back.

Right now the best bet to go to the pen would be Arroyo. Miller isn't cut out for the pen, and Arroyo has a good history there (2004 playoffs). If Wakefield starts struggling again, they could always bump him to the pen and bring Arroyo back to the rotation.

Foulke isn't quite 100% yet, but he's definitely on his way. He'll be fine. I expect Theo to put together a couple of deals for solid, but not great, middle relief guys or maybe a set-up man before the deadline.

[BigD226]

[ QUOTE ]
Which part of the team needs the most work? Bull....pen....
Who is the worst performing member of the bullpen? Em...bree...

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you watched the last couple of series?
Ha...la...ma

[ QUOTE ]


I don't mean to sound like an ass, but I don't really have a history of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm...

[ QUOTE ]
Don't be a [censored] idiot. If Epstein says that change is imminent and coming, what the [censored] do you think he's talking about? Our [censored] catching situation? What do we have to do, put it out on a [censored] plate for you? We can do this together, if I hold your hands.

(Rest of obnoxious post deleted)

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow...you're an a$$hole.

[sam h]

Thanks Sublime.

Yeah, Pedroia is like 5-7 or 5-8 or something. But dude can hit apparently

[sublime]

sam-

embree had some more struggles today, as im sure you can see by reading the box score. if you don't have MLBtv, then you probably wouldn't know that ramon vasquez botched a fairly routine DP ball that really screwed him. vasquez is a waste of a roster space. i am still surprised that embree hasn't hit the DL. maybe they are waiting for schilling to come back, and halama will hang around while AE gets his traditional sabbatical.

[Toro]

As bad as Embry is, I'd rather they 86 Halamalama.

[sublime]

i think (hope) thats what they do. embree has a stint on the DL just about every year around this time and usually when he comes off he is serviceable. thing is, right now I don't think they can DL him. once/if schilling comes back it creates a lot more flexibilty.

[sublime]

burnett rumors In a heartbeat (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3720056)

i hate rumors. get excited about something that has a small chance of happening /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[DougOzzzz]

the Sox would be giving up way too much if they trade Arroyo and Hanley Ramirez for Burnett.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
the Sox would be giving up way too much if they trade Arroyo and Hanley Ramirez for Burnett.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, they got Dustin Pedroia (who's the real prospect), but they can get a better deal for Hanley I bet.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
the Sox would be giving up way too much if they trade Arroyo and Hanley Ramirez for Burnett.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, you are correct.

[imported_The Vibesman]

For those wondering about Guardado I heard he has been pitching with elbow pain, and coming off a shoulder injury...he is probably not an option

[2planka]

Okay, been ignoring this thread for a while. My two pennies:

[ QUOTE ]
How much longer should Theo/Terry wait before cutting their losses with Embree?

[/ QUOTE ]

Other than a phantom injury or the Sox eating the remainder of his $3M salary, I can't see how they can do anything with Embree. With 11 years of service I doubt he has options.

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do with Foulke?

[/ QUOTE ]
Foulke is what he is. They have to let him try to work through it. I don't see an established closer out there. Gotta give Foulke four more weeks to work himself out of it.

[ QUOTE ]
Who should be bumped to the pen when Schill comes back, and in what role?

[/ QUOTE ]
Arroyo

[ QUOTE ]
Who is available on the trade market?

[/ QUOTE ]

There was speculation of a Mueller & Shoppach for Otsuka & grub deal a couple weeks ago. I like Mueller, but he is 34 years old, with gummy knees, and will be a FA at the end of the season. Moving him gets Youkilis in the game. Mueller's on the books for $2.5M this year, the balance of which should be tradeable. Mueller is also reputed to be a "clubhouse guy" though, so moving him could be disruptive.

Otsuka has control issues (1.43 WHIP) and is Millwood-esque when it comes to holding runners. On the plus side, he's tough against lefties and has a 2:1 K:BB ratio.

If I'm SD, I don't give this guy up, though.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Millar shipped out of town for a couple of baseballs and a bag of sunflower seeds.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Sox do some minor deal rather than a blockbuster. They're on pace to score 900 runs and their pitching hasn't been that bad. They've been on a tear for the past couple of weeks. I think Theo should stand pat unless something falls in his lap.

[ QUOTE ]
What about this kid Hanson?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think they should wait on this kid.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Who should be bumped to the pen when Schill comes back, and in what role?

[/ QUOTE ]
Arroyo

[/ QUOTE ]

????

[Toro]

This wouldn't happen in a million years but I had a brainstorming idea for the Sox bullpen woes. Curt Schilling as the closer.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
This wouldn't happen in a million years but I had a brainstorming idea for the Sox bullpen woes. Curt Schilling as the closer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which would be a silly, reactionary move.

[sublime]

foulke is a just a mystery. i suppose the main culprit could be hes burnt out after last october. with this type of dropoff in production, injury HAS to be the #1 suspect. reports that his knees are in bad shape appear to hold some water. if hes injured i dont see why he isnt on the DL, the team can manage without him (call up i suppose), i mean it has for this long.....

good news anyways, schlling plays tonight /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[2planka]

[ QUOTE ]
Foulke is what he is. They have to let him try to work through it. I don't see an established closer out there. Gotta give Foulke four more weeks to work himself out of it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. Nailed that one.

Granted it's only one outing, but Foulke looked awful last night. It has to be as much mental as it is physical. The guy looked like he just didn't want to be in there.

I also wonder if he's pulling a Nomar with his attitude. His 'tude stinks. STFU and pitch. No one feels sorry for you.

[Toro]

I don't agree it would be silly. The Braves did it with Smoltz with great success when they were in dire need of a closer.

Right now, the strength of the Sox pitching is starting and when Schilling comes back, one of those starters will be bumped to long/middle relief. Long relievers do not make or break a club, closers do. Of the 6 starters, I think Schilling would be the best at closing.

[2planka]

Toro -

There is no chance that they'd take a starter coming off an injury and make him a closer. Schilling will need his days' rest.

Foulke was never a flamethrower, but his velocity is way down. I don't think he touched 90 once last night. Juicer?

[sublime]

I don't agree it would be silly. The Braves did it with Smoltz with great success when they were in dire need of a closer.

it was in reaction to a injury to smoltz the previous season and iirc was planned FAR in advance of it happening (at least before spring training).

Long relievers do not make or break a club, closers do.

One pitches more innings than the other, so this isnt correct. the closer position is more galmerous, but the guy who pitches more quality innings is more important.

when/if heatly schilling is a stud, a top tier starter. why mess with that?

[mrbaseball]

[ QUOTE ]
foulke is a just a mystery

[/ QUOTE ]

As a White Sox fan I know of no one who couldn't wait for us to get rid of this guy. He had a couple good seasons for us and then fell of a cliff. He had a resurgance after leaving us but seems to have reaqainted himself with that cliff again. I don't think he will ever have the consistency people want out of a closer.

[sublime]

Foulke was never a flamethrower, but his velocity is way down. I don't think he touched 90 once last night

i dont think he touched 90 once last year! /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

he needs to hit 88-89 to be effective. most of this year he has been 85-87.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't agree it would be silly. The Braves did it with Smoltz with great success when they were in dire need of a closer.

[/ QUOTE ]

And then they realized that it was idiotic, made him a starter again, and he's worth a lot more.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
foulke is a just a mystery

[/ QUOTE ]

As a White Sox fan I know of no one who couldn't wait for us to get rid of this guy. He had a couple good seasons for us and then fell of a cliff. He had a resurgance after leaving us but seems to have reaqainted himself with that cliff again. I don't think he will ever have the consistency people want out of a closer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to scream this at you, because you probably wouldn't understand it otherwise.

KEITH FOULKE HAD TWO SEASONS WITH AN ERA ABOVE 3 AS A WHITE SOCK: 1997 AND 1998. HE WAS GOOD UNTIL THE VERY END, YOUR MORON OF A GM TRADED HIM FOR BILLY [censored] KOCH.

Thank you.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
foulke is a just a mystery

[/ QUOTE ]

As a White Sox fan I know of no one who couldn't wait for us to get rid of this guy. He had a couple good seasons for us and then fell of a cliff. He had a resurgance after leaving us but seems to have reaqainted himself with that cliff again. I don't think he will ever have the consistency people want out of a closer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to scream this at you, because you probably wouldn't understand it otherwise.

KEITH FOULKE HAD TWO SEASONS WITH AN ERA ABOVE 3 AS A WHITE SOCK: 1997 AND 1998. HE WAS GOOD UNTIL THE VERY END, YOUR MORON OF A GM TRADED HIM FOR BILLY [censored] KOCH.

Thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]

didn't he lose his closing job in chicago and then post a 2 era for the rest of the year? friggin morans /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[mrbaseball]

I don't like you? You seem to be a real unlikeable guy.

But every White Sox fan I know of couldn't wait to be rid of this guy. His last year was peppered with blown saves and bad outings. And yeah Koch was obviously not the answer. That moron GM seems to have built a fairly impressive team this year (so far) with some outside the box kind of thinking. Every GM makes some good and bad deals but Williams I think is one of the best. He isn't afraid to pull the trigger and he is creative. He has made two awful deals (Koch and Ritchie) but a whole bunch of great ones.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
But every White Sox fan I know of couldn't wait to be rid of this guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most people are idiots.

[ QUOTE ]
His last year was peppered with blown saves and bad outings.

[/ QUOTE ]

And a 2.90 ERA. This is what happens when you freak out over a reliever's bad month or whatever. It happens, they only pitch 15 or so innings.

[ QUOTE ]
That moron GM seems to have built a fairly impressive team this year (so far)

[/ QUOTE ]

...through no real fault of his own...

[ QUOTE ]
Every GM makes some good and bad deals but Williams I think is one of the best. He isn't afraid to pull the trigger and he is creative. He has made two awful deals (Koch and Ritchie) but a whole bunch of great ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

You forgot Podsednik.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
foulke is a just a mystery

[/ QUOTE ]

As a White Sox fan I know of no one who couldn't wait for us to get rid of this guy. He had a couple good seasons for us and then fell of a cliff. He had a resurgance after leaving us but seems to have reaqainted himself with that cliff again. I don't think he will ever have the consistency people want out of a closer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to scream this at you, because you probably wouldn't understand it otherwise.

KEITH FOULKE HAD TWO SEASONS WITH AN ERA ABOVE 3 AS A WHITE SOCK: 1997 AND 1998. HE WAS GOOD UNTIL THE VERY END, YOUR MORON OF A GM TRADED HIM FOR BILLY [censored] KOCH.

Thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]

didn't he lose his closing job in chicago and then post a 2 era for the rest of the year? friggin morans /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/players/gamelog?statsId=5817&year=2002

2 blown saves. whoopdie damn doo

last 2 months, 1 run in 26 innings

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But every White Sox fan I know of couldn't wait to be rid of this guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most people are idiots.

[ QUOTE ]
His last year was peppered with blown saves and bad outings.

[/ QUOTE ]

And a 2.90 ERA. This is what happens when you freak out over a reliever's bad month or whatever. It happens, they only pitch 15 or so innings.



[/ QUOTE ]

bingo

[sublime]

mantei hits the DL. ankle problem stemming from a game in late april, when he backed up 3rd base vs the oreos. dunno, on one hand it means he still has good stuff (he was pitching well b4 this) OTOH, it takes them a friggin month to decide he needs time off? abe alvarez called up to take his roster spot.

david wells is playing with a moderate injury, which is nothing new.

ps-
the talk surrounding hansen on the radio this weei (gammons and one caller i actually pay attention to) seem to think if he isnt signed by august 1st we wont see him. that being said, gammons was somewhat optimistic of that happening due to the sox BP issues/the market sucking/boras not having as much leverage as usual because he is dealing with a major market team already.

[Los Feliz Slim]

Am I insane to think about Mesa as a closer? What about Benitez?

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I insane to think about Mesa as a closer? What about Benitez?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mesa's really bad. He just can't really pitch anymore.

Benitez is a great, underrated closer because Met fans are dumb.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I insane to think about Mesa as a closer? What about Benitez?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think giving up on foulke is premature

[sublime]

ramon vasquesz and abe alvarez sent to AAA, lenny dinardo (L)and jerimi gonzalez (R) sent up to the show.

here are their scouting reports from soxprospects.com

gonzalez

Scouting Report: Low 90s fastball with excellent movement. Also throws a plus changeup and a decent curveball. Emotional on the mound, similar to Derek Lowe. A variety of injuries have limited his starts over recent years

dinardo

Scouting Report: According to Theo Epstein: DiNardo is a very crafty lefty. His stuff does not blow you away, but he really knows how to pitch. He changes speeds, he has a good changeup, he's tough on righties with his changeup. If he sticks, it will be as a left-handed long guy. A guy to turn a lineup around."


it appears both are auditioning for roles. pretty obvious which ones also, considering they seem to match the specs of embree and halalaMAMAMAMA.

[contentless]

DiNardo was up last year. He's hardly a prospect, coming by way of the rule 5 draft from last year. He's not a Embree mold; he's a groundball pitcher. At least he can't be worse than Embree is now.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
DiNardo was up last year. He's hardly a prospect, coming by way of the rule 5 draft from last year. He's not a Embree mold; he's a groundball pitcher. At least he can't be worse than Embree is now.

[/ QUOTE ]

i meant gonzalez is embree(ish) (albet its comparing a righty and lefty, both rely on power) and dinardo is halamamamamaam(like) junky type pitcher.

[Los Feliz Slim]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I insane to think about Mesa as a closer? What about Benitez?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think giving up on foulke is premature

[/ QUOTE ]

When, then?

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I insane to think about Mesa as a closer? What about Benitez?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think giving up on foulke is premature

[/ QUOTE ]

When, then?

[/ QUOTE ]

soon(tomorrow?).....maybe put timlin in there....i am utterly against overpaying in trade for somebody marginally better.

[sublime]

i cant believe how bad he looks at times

[Los Feliz Slim]

Timmy ain't a closer. Maaaaaaaybe Arroyo. It is SO time to stop the bleeding.

FCuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
Timmy ain't a closer. Maaaaaaaybe Arroyo. It is SO time to stop the bleeding.

FCuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk

[/ QUOTE ]

arroyo struggles too much against lefties to close IMO.

[sublime]

it is definitely time to move foulke into some lower leverage situations, putting him into situations like this is just too much on him.

[Los Feliz Slim]

[ QUOTE ]
it is definitely time to move foulke into some lower leverage situations, putting him into situations like this is just too much on him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Time indeed. Why not trade for a closer? Nobody wants Shoppach?

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it is definitely time to move foulke into some lower leverage situations, putting him into situations like this is just too much on him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Time indeed. Why not trade for a closer? Nobody wants Shoppach?

[/ QUOTE ]

who though? then you have to consider the price of that trade. imo, the best move is to get schilling back, bump arroyo and reorder the back end of the bullpen. hopefully this kid hansen signs soon and can be a somewhat fresh arm a month or so from now.

this team is not the NYY and will not make longterm -EV moves to fix a problem. they cant afford to.

[tbach24]

There are plenty of good setupmen out there potentially looking for a closer job.

Off the top of my head:
Julian Tavarez
Alan Reyes
Jesse Crain
Mike Gonzalez


There are many more.

[Toro]

I said this a week ago and some said it was reactioanry and silly but after tonite it looks desparate. Schilling has to be the closer.

But they'll never do it.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
There are plenty of good setupmen out there potentially looking for a closer job.

Off the top of my head:
Julian Tavarez
Alan Reyes
Jesse Crain
Mike Gonzalez


There are many more.

[/ QUOTE ]

how many are available for trade, and at what cost? the fact that these guys want to close means nothing.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
I said this a week ago and some said it was reactioanry and silly but after tonite it looks desparate. Schilling has to be the closer.

But they'll never do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

of course they wont. they understand that 100 innings of quality pitching is much more important than 40 innings of quality pitching.

hes a top tier starting pitcher, why even consider moving him into a new role? if it wasnt me who said it was a silly idea, then put me on record as saying it now. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[andyfox]

How about Timlin?

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
How about Timlin?

[/ QUOTE ]

Timlin has been excellent this year. However, when he was used as a closer in Toronto and Baltimore earlier in his career, he had problems. For whatever reasons, he's one of those pitchers who thrive as a set-up guy but don't get the job done as closer.

I'm not worried about Foulke. Maybe he needs a break from the closer role. But, when Labor Day rolls around, I want Keith Foulke pitching the Red Sox 9th innings.

[andyfox]

I suspect you're right about Foulke. He sure looked down in the dumps walking off tonight though. Maybe getting him in in less pressure-filled situations, as you suggest, might allow him to regain his confidence.

As for Timlin, sometimes guys mature later in their career and can handle the pressure as a closer better than when they were younger. Wickman is, I think, a good example.

[LoaferGee12]

Eh, the WSox bullpen is fine. Politte / Cotts setting up, and Hermanson closing. We're money.

[DougOzzzz]

The Sox bullpen collapse is really unexpected. Last year, they had a strong bullpen. They have not made any changes - the key pitchers from last year just started sucking for some reason.

Last years stats:
Player IP WXRL LEV
Foulke 83 4.4 1.47
Timlin 76.3 2.67 1.2
Embree 52.3 1.97 1.25

Explanation: IP = innings pitched. WXRL = Expected wins added above replacement pitcher. Lev = Leverage, or how important the innings the reliever pitched were to the outcome of the game. The leverage is 1 at the start of the game. The higher the leverage, the more important the innings pitched were.

Foulke, Timlin, and Embree combined for over 9 wins above a replacement level pitcher last year. They pitched nearly 1.5 innings per game. No other Sox reliever had over 31 innings pitched last year, and none pitched in more important situations. And they did their job well.

This year:
Player IP WXRL Lev
Timlin 39.7 0.76 0.94
Foulke 38.7 -0.38 1.20
Embree 34 -1.18 0.86

Does not include last night's game.

Halfway through the season, Timlin, Foulke, and Embree are actually on pace to pitch more innings this year than last year. After tonights game, they should combine to be more than 1 win WORSE than replacement level pitching. Even Timlin, with his deflated ERA (he is 9th worst in the majors in allowing inherited runners to score), has been worse this year than last. Fortunately for the Sox, they have not been in many close and late situations this year. The leverage for all 3 pitchers is down, and no other Sox reliever can match any of the 3's leverage rating.

The Sox pen might be the worst in baseball. Certainly the worst for any contending team. They don't have any solutions in the minor leagues (Pawtucket, their AAA team, has 4 blown saves during their current 6 game losing streak). There is some hope that when Schilling returns (he gave up 8 ER today in 5 innings at Pawtucket, despite striking out 8), that Arroyo will provide some bullpen help. Unfortunately, that's probably not enough. They need at least 1 more guy in the pen who can pitch well above replacement level.

[sublime]

They don't have any solutions in the minor leagues (Pawtucket, their AAA team, has 4 blown saves during their current 6 game losing streak).

jon papelbon and anibel sanchez (two of top three prospects in org) were recently promoted to AAA and AA respectively. while they might not BE the solution, they certainly could help in September.

i am not as concerned with the bullpen issues as others seem to be, IF schilling comes back and makes it 90-95% of his peak health. the sox in 2003 had An awful bullpen, but made it within 5 outs of the world series and iirc had 3 less wins than last years team.

hopefully theo can make a deal that adds some depth to the pen and francona can manage the bullpen in its current state to minimize the damage. a total overhaul is not going to happen, and if nobody has noticed its not just foulke who has sucked this year.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
Timmy ain't a closer. Maaaaaaaybe Arroyo. It is SO time to stop the bleeding.

FCuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk

[/ QUOTE ]

Why the [censored] does everybody in Boston want to move Arroyo into the pen?

[DougOzzzz]

[ QUOTE ]
They don't have any solutions in the minor leagues (Pawtucket, their AAA team, has 4 blown saves during their current 6 game losing streak).

jon papelbon and anibel sanchez (two of top three prospects in org) were recently promoted to AAA and AA respectively. while they might not BE the solution, they certainly could help in September.


[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, they're both "starters" though (not saying they couldn't be effective in relief). I am not sure Sanchez will be ready this year, having so far not pitched above the A level.
[ QUOTE ]

i am not as concerned with the bullpen issues as others seem to be, IF schilling comes back and makes it 90-95% of his peak health. the sox in 2003 had An awful bullpen, but made i within 5 outs of the world series and if i remember correctly had one less win than last years team.


[/ QUOTE ]
A few points:
1. It's funny that you bring up the 2003 Sox. You'd think the fact that they BLEW the game in the late innings should show how their BP failed them that year. I know, Pedro was left in too long - but chances are if the Sox had a better pen Little may not have left Pedro in.
2. They were not THAT bad... about 5 wins above replacement level as a team. The Sox this year are a couple wins BELOW replacement level as a team. Foulke of 2005 makes Kim of 2003 look like Mariano Rivera in his prime.
3. The Sox have been a little lucky so far. Their bullpen probably should be hurting them more than it has been.
[ QUOTE ]

hopefully theo can make a deal that adds some depth to the pen and francona can manage the bullpen in its current state to minimize the damage.

[/ QUOTE ]
There really aren't many options for Francona now. I mean, none of the choices are good. Timlin would be the 4th or 5th option out of the pen for many other teams, yet he's been the best so far for the Sox. Everyone else has been terrible, except Myers who only pitches against lefties.

I'm not suggesting the Sox mortgage their whole future or anything. It's a tough situation to be in because top notch relievers are generally overvalued and overpaid for. But the Sox really could use one, or at least a pair of "solid" relievers.

[Jack of Arcades]

The pen in the 2003 postseason had done some ridiculous work, though; I think they'd allowed something like one run the whole way.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Timmy ain't a closer. Maaaaaaaybe Arroyo. It is SO time to stop the bleeding.

FCuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk

[/ QUOTE ]

Why the [censored] does everybody in Boston want to move Arroyo into the pen?

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont want him in the pen, just seems he is the most logical choice if one has to me made.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
The pen in the 2003 postseason had done some ridiculous work, though; I think they'd allowed something like one run the whole way.

[/ QUOTE ]

the bullpen was sick that series and the previous one also.

[DougOzzzz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Timmy ain't a closer. Maaaaaaaybe Arroyo. It is SO time to stop the bleeding.

FCuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk

[/ QUOTE ]

Why the [censored] does everybody in Boston want to move Arroyo into the pen?

[/ QUOTE ]
Options:

Arroyo: Pitches well 1st inning of the game. Has a big platoon split (sucks vs lefties, dominates righties).
Wells: His value is in innings-eating. Definately not the type to be more effective in 1 inning situations.
Wakefield: Does seem to do well early in the game. Moving him to the pen would break up the Mirabelli/Wakefield partnership - something that neither player will like.
Clement: Starts off very strong. He'd likely be a great closer. He's also been their best starter.
Miller: Starts off slow and then gradually gets better (common for pitchers coming back from injury). Not a good pattern for a reliever.

This is essentially stolen from a recent e-mail (20 mins ago) to the Bosox mailing list. He posted the stats though, to back it up (1st inning, 1st 3 innings, AVG/OBA/SLG by pitch count, etc).

So who do you move to the pen instead of Arroyo?

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Timmy ain't a closer. Maaaaaaaybe Arroyo. It is SO time to stop the bleeding.

FCuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk

[/ QUOTE ]

Why the [censored] does everybody in Boston want to move Arroyo into the pen?

[/ QUOTE ]
Options:

Arroyo: Pitches well 1st inning of the game. Has a big platoon split (sucks vs lefties, dominates righties).
Wells: His value is in innings-eating. Definately not the type to be more effective in 1 inning situations.
Wakefield: Does seem to do well early in the game. Moving him to the pen would break up the Mirabelli/Wakefield partnership - something that neither player will like.
Clement: Starts off very strong. He'd likely be a great closer. He's also been their best starter.
Miller: Starts off slow and then gradually gets better (common for pitchers coming back from injury). Not a good pattern for a reliever.

This is essentially stolen from a recent e-mail (20 mins ago) to the Bosox mailing list. He posted the stats though, to back it up (1st inning, 1st 3 innings, AVG/OBA/SLG by pitch count, etc).

So who do you move to the pen instead of Arroyo?

[/ QUOTE ]

some key points regarding miller and wells. they get paid per start basically nullifying any chance they go to the pen.

miller look awesome after the first last night.

if it wasn't for the mirrabelli issue, i think wakefield would be the one to go, although non statistical considerations have to be taken into account also. tito obviously is a players manager and moving wakefield to the pen would not bode well for his attitude (hated being bounced around in the williams tenure)

let us not forget that out of our 6 starters (when schill comes back) one is already hurt (wells) and another is still on the comeback trail from a serious injury (miller) and the other is essentially starting his season over.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
of course they wont. they understand that 100 innings of quality pitching is much more important than 40 innings of quality pitching.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement is true only in a vacuum. The strength of the staff is starting right now and the glaring weakness closing. Outside help is hard to find. Move one of your surplus starters into the role. Who's the hardest thrower(he was clocked last night at 96), Schilling.

He's also best suited to handle the pressure. If Bellicheck were coaching the team, he would do it. Troy Brown as a defensive Back? Reactionary and silly.

[sublime]

This statement is true only in a vacuum.

how so? assuming he comes back with 75 games remaining there are roughly 675 innings left in the year and if schilling were to become the closer he would pitch roughly 40 innings. if he starts 15 games averages 7 innings a game he pitches 105 innings.

so in your scenario, we have a pitcher who A) hasn't pitched out of the bullpen (besides one game in 02) since 1992 B) has pitched at an elite level in his original capacity for 11 seasons C) pitching in 6% of the remaining innings

even if you factor in the high leverage factor it wont be close. there is a reason starters make a LOT more money than closers. they mean more to the team.

in my scenario, he pitches in his accustomed position and doesn't have to recondition his arm to pitch a small amount regularly instead of a large amount followed by a long rest and pitches in 15.5% of the remaining innings.

it doesn't make any sense to make a move like that, especially mid season.

He's also best suited to handle the pressure. If Bellicheck were coaching the team, he would do it. Troy Brown as a defensive Back? Reactionary and silly

troy brown was the 4th receiver, not randy moss.

[SocialWelfareIV]

[ QUOTE ]

There really aren't many options for Francona now. I mean, none of the choices are good. Timlin would be the 4th or 5th option out of the pen for many other teams, yet he's been the best so far for the Sox. Everyone else has been terrible, except Myers who only pitches against lefties.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is really the heart of the issue. Embree's struggles, in particular, have hurt the time just as much as Foulke (Embree's given up some game-winning homers, too). Coming into the year, the team was supposed to have 4 relievers that could handle the late innings in Foulke, Timlin, Embree, and Mantei (Mantei of course was a wild card). Three of those guys have been worthless and the other's been pretty decent. Halama has been worthless (I actually liked seeing him in the game last night, though. If you can't use the guy to get an out or two here and there, you've got to get rid of him). So getting one guy won't fix that mess -- even when Arroyo goes to the pen, you need at least one more quality guy and preferably two.

I'm a big fan of calling up some of the minor leaguers, sooner rather than later. I'd give Meredith another chance; I'd like to see what Papelbon can do. There's a decent amount of pitching talent there in the minors. Throw it at the wall, and see what sticks. It seems like it might be time for Foulke to head to the DL, and giving up Halama would be no big loss.

Also, what about this: does anyone think the Sox could get anything for Wells or Miller? They'll be eligible to trade them pretty soon and I think you might be able to turn them around for something decent. Especially Miller. He's relatively young and cheap, and has a pretty high ceiling. That's the case for not trading him, but if you get some talent that can help you win now (read: decent relievers), this kind of a move might be viable.

[Toro]

Blowing games late will do more to ruin the psyche of a team than any other single thing. The Sox go no where if they don't solve this problem. The greater number of quality innings Schilling can provide as a starter is a moot point. Since the Sox appear to have enough pitching in the starting rotation to get them to the end of games, the last inning or innings are weighted with far more importance.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
Blowing games late will do more to ruin the psyche of a team than any other single thing. The Sox go no where if they don't solve this problem. The greater number of quality innings Schilling can provide as a starter is a moot point. Since the Sox appear to have enough pitching in the starting rotation to get them to the end of games, the last inning or innings are weighted with far more importance.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, then why not make clement the closer?

[Voltron87]

please do this. i would love it.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
please do this. i would love it.

[/ QUOTE ]

hahaha, it would be akin to mo being made a starter to help out.

[Voltron87]

Or Sturtze starting for us. Imagine how desperate we would have to be for sturtze to be starting.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
Or Sturtze starting for us. Imagine how desperate we would have to be for sturtze to be starting.

[/ QUOTE ]

or a guy named wang would be your ace

[lu_hawk]

i will ask all the people around here with brand new red sox hats what they think should be done about the sox bullpen. i will make sure to ask them about possible moves that epstein could make before the deadline and who could be shuffled between the majors and the minors. also, they might have some ideas to shuffle up the roles for the people already in the bullpen. i will get back to everybody once i find out. these people are very knowledgeable so i should have some good ideas.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Or Sturtze starting for us. Imagine how desperate we would have to be for sturtze to be starting.

[/ QUOTE ]

or a guy named wang would be your ace

[/ QUOTE ]

dude, wang is awesome. we would be soooo [censored] if cano and wang had not worked out. btw, cano is hittin in the 290s (with a nice 315 OBP /images/graemlins/grin.gif) and is hammering the ball. both of them are very legit.

[Uston]

[ QUOTE ]
If Bellicheck were coaching the team, he would do it. Troy Brown as a defensive Back? Reactionary and silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

This analogy would only work if Schilling could close games while still remaining in the starting rotation.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Blowing games late will do more to ruin the psyche of a team than any other single thing. The Sox go no where if they don't solve this problem. The greater number of quality innings Schilling can provide as a starter is a moot point. Since the Sox appear to have enough pitching in the starting rotation to get them to the end of games, the last inning or innings are weighted with far more importance.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, then why not make clement the closer?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because Clement is arguably the ace of the staff now. And Schilling is better suited to close because he has much better control and better sutied for the pressure.

And closing right now just might be better for Schilling and that rehabbed ankle.

[sublime]

Because Clement is arguably the ace of the staff now.

only because schilling is out.

And closing right now just might be better for Schilling and that rehabbed ankle.

or it could be worse.

imo, its a silly idea and thankfully i will never (at least this year) have to see it proven.

[Jack of Arcades]

In the question of "who should be removed from the rotation when Schilling comes back" why is everyone thinking in terms of "what is best for the pen?"

[Toro]

Because the sox pen is rated last in the majors.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
Because the sox pen is rated last in the majors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which doesn't change the fact that the starting rotation is far more important.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Because the sox pen is rated last in the majors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which doesn't change the fact that the starting rotation is far more important.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes it is. a trade off has to be made however. looking purely at stats, miller would be the choice as he seems to be the least effective starter, yet when you look deeper you see he has had control issues and has trouble getting 'loose'. clement is obviously not going, and wells isn't either. that leaves wakefield and arroyo, and for reasons previously stated arroyo seems to be the front runner.

again, this 'issue' may never come to fruition as schilling probably wont even start until after the AS break. a lot of things could change between now and then.

[sublime]

foulke to have MRI on knees, in case anybody didnt hear.

[DougOzzzz]

Interestingly enough, Wells has stated that he'd be willing to take the closer role. This is in spite of the fact that his incentives depend on him starting games.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
Interestingly enough, Wells has stated that he'd be willing to take the closer role. This is in spite of the fact that his incentives depend on him starting games.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't put much stock in it, and I'm sure his agent would ask for some things in his contract to be rewritten but that's pretty cool of the big doughnut. probably figures he can earn a paycheck while pitching 1/3 amount of the innings.

The more I think about it, the more I like going out and getting a good live arm or two. If it takes losing Hanley to make it back to the WS, then so be it. Hopefully the rest of baseball thinks as highly of him as most media members do.

[DougOzzzz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Interestingly enough, Wells has stated that he'd be willing to take the closer role. This is in spite of the fact that his incentives depend on him starting games.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't put much stock in it, and I'm sure his agent would ask for some things in his contract to be rewritten but that's pretty cool of the big doughnut. probably figures he can earn a paycheck while pitching 1/3 amount of the innings.

The more I think about it, the more I like going out and getting a good live arm or two. If it takes losing Hanley to make it back to the WS, then so be it. Hopefully the rest of baseball thinks as highly of him as most media members do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree about Hanley. Pedroia is the much better prospect IMO.

[sublime]

removing foot from mouth......

schilling to begin pitching out of bullpen in pawtucket and when activated will be pitching out of sox pen. (per francona on weei)

speculation will be high as to why this is happening but i am thinking theo is a 2+2er and likes what toro had to say /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Joe Tall]

Curt Schilling is going to be an excellent addition to the bullpen until he's back in form after the All-Star break.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
Curt Schilling is going to be an excellent addition to the bullpen until he's back in form after the All-Star break.

[/ QUOTE ]

hes not coming back until after the AS break, i suppose they are gonna play it by ear at that point.

[sublime]

whatever this is, the ONLY way it remains permanent (and by that i mean next year) is if schilling cant handle long periods on his ankle. i don't know how medically being on the ankle for 1 inning at a time 3-4 times a week compares to 7 innings once a week. hell this could just be until he feels more comfortable or maybe even posturing by the FO.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]

hes not coming back until after the AS break, i suppose they are gonna play it by ear at that point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Francona interview on EEI today, "Schilling will be available for bullpen duty after the All Star break." I think it's a great idea to get him back in form and give Theo time to grab someone before July 31st. Oh, and Schill is down with this idea, btw.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

hes not coming back until after the AS break, i suppose they are gonna play it by ear at that point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Francona interview on EEI today, "Schilling will be available for bullpen duty after the All Star break." I think it's a great idea to get him back in form and give Theo time to grab someone before July 31st. Oh, and Schill is down with this idea, btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh, your first post confused me. thought you meant he will be in bullpen like this weekend and will start after AS break.

lol, of course hes down with it. you think francona gets more pull than curt?

tito is cool, i like listening to his interviews. seems like a great guy. no wonder he didn't fit in Philly.

[DougOzzzz]

Can't say I'm thrilled about Schilling going to the bullpen. Oh well... hopefully it won't last.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
Can't say I'm thrilled about Schilling going to the bullpen. Oh well... hopefully it won't last.

[/ QUOTE ]

im sure there is a reason, other than the fact that the bullpen is a mess. it has to related to schillings rehab, if not its a misuse of rescources and this regime is very good about not doing things like that.

whatever it is, its only good for the team. look at the disaster to the south(east?) and the 'problems' the sox have /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[sublime]

one this this obviously accomplishes is giving the sox a lot more flexibility in the trade market.

oh well, in Theo i trust.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
removing foot from mouth......

schilling to begin pitching out of bullpen in pawtucket and when activated will be pitching out of sox pen. (per francona on weei)

speculation will be high as to why this is happening but i am thinking theo is a 2+2er and likes what toro had to say /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I floated this idea to a buddy at coffee about 2 weeks ago. He said I should pass it along to our Parks Director, Mike Brescianni who is cousin to the Red Sox PR man Dick Brescianni. I told Mike to tell Dick to tell Theo.

So I take full credit or blame for how this works out. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[DougOzzzz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can't say I'm thrilled about Schilling going to the bullpen. Oh well... hopefully it won't last.

[/ QUOTE ]

im sure there is a reason, other than the fact that the bullpen is a mess. it has to related to schillings rehab, if not its a misuse of rescources and this regime is very good about not doing things like that.

whatever it is, its only good for the team. look at the disaster to the south(east?) and the 'problems' the sox have /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure... the Sox are probably doing what is best for the team. The front office is too smart to make Schilling a reliever just because the bullpen is struggling. But that means they see something wrong with Schilling that prevents him from being a top tier starter. And for that reason, this is bad news to me.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
removing foot from mouth......

schilling to begin pitching out of bullpen in pawtucket and when activated will be pitching out of sox pen. (per francona on weei)

speculation will be high as to why this is happening but i am thinking theo is a 2+2er and likes what toro had to say /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I floated this idea to a buddy at coffee about 2 weeks ago. He said I should pass it along to our Parks Director, Mike Brescianni who is cousin to the Red Sox PR man Dick Brescianni. I told Mike to tell Dick to tell Theo.

So I take full credit or blame for how this works out. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

well now that it has been made public and i have to deal with it (for whatever length of time it is) i am looking at the benefits of the move and i must say, with the deadline approaching it gives the sox a lot of flexibility.....

toro, i will never doubt you again. unless you suggest tom brady play linebacker.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can't say I'm thrilled about Schilling going to the bullpen. Oh well... hopefully it won't last.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure there is a reason, other than the fact that the bullpen is a mess. it has to related to schillings rehab, if not its a misuse of resources and this regime is very good about not doing things like that.

whatever it is, its only good for the team. look at the disaster to the south(east?) and the 'problems' the sox have /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure... the Sox are probably doing what is best for the team. The front office is too smart to make Schilling a reliever just because the bullpen is struggling. But that means they see something wrong with Schilling that prevents him from being a top tier starter. And for that reason, this is bad news to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

ehhh, i wouldn't be concerned about that unless it lasts longer than this year. if he turns out to be as effective as smoltz was during his tenure, its a bad allocation of 13m but better than nothing.

[Voltron87]

if schilling cannot come back as a starter but instead goes to the pen I will be extremely happy. your starting rotation is not great, and the pen is straight up bad. all the while sox supporters have been saying "well when schilling gets back and is the ace look how good it will be", but that is too optimistic. i doubt schilling will be as effective as he once was. at least dount count on it.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
if schilling cannot come back as a starter but instead goes to the pen I will be extremely happy. your starting rotation is not great, and the pen is straight up bad. all the while sox supporters have been saying "well when schilling gets back and is the ace look how good it will be", but that is too optimistic. i doubt schilling will be as effective as he once was. at least dount count on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

if schilling didnt throw one pitch the rest of the year, the sox would be favorites to win the division.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
Epstein said the team concluded that Schilling was "a long way" from being the ace who went 21-6 with a 3.26 ERA in the regular season before using an unprecedented medical technique to help pitch the Red Sox to their first World Series title since 1918.

"We don't need a five-inning starter right now. We need Curt Schilling to be himself," Epstein said. "We all feel he's not ready to be a dominant starter right now."


[/ QUOTE ]

Theo Epstein from this article boston.com (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/07/06/francona_schilling_headed_to_bullpen/)

so it boils down to this. he doesnt have the ability to be top notch over a full game right now. cool, instead of building himself back up at AAA he does it from the pen.

[BigD226]

[ QUOTE ]
if schilling cannot come back as a starter but instead goes to the pen I will be extremely happy. your starting rotation is not great, and the pen is straight up bad. all the while sox supporters have been saying "well when schilling gets back and is the ace look how good it will be", but that is too optimistic. i doubt schilling will be as effective as he once was. at least dount count on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhh...the Sox are in 1st place and 11 games over .500 with the rotation the way it is and one of the worst pens in the majors. The starters for the most part have done their job, and if Curt Schilling is coming in for the final four or five outs with a 1-2 run lead, Sox fans can certainly breathe a lot easier than they do right now.

No one knows for sure, but I'd strongly suspect this is a temporary move to a) immediately improve the pen, b) let Schilling continue to get back to his old self, and c) give the Sox some much needed leverage in the market before the deadline. I fully admit my bias as a Sox fan, but I think this is a brilliant move.

If nothing else, it sure as hell can't hurt with the way our bullpen has played...so if Schilling isn't quite ready to handle 7 innings yet but can dominate for a couple of innings, then why the [censored] not?

[Voltron87]

I think calling putting Schilling in the bullpen "a brilliant move" is just not right. I'm not gonna tell you its awful and a fuckup, because it isnt, but it's not genius or brilliant.

The main drift of my post was:

I talk with sox fans and argue about the relative strength of the two teams, and when I point out the sox rotation, isnt really stellar, they say "well when we get schill back after the AS break we'll be awesome". My point is, don't count on it.

From the 4-5 clips of him pitching he did not look that great, he was not moving his weight far off the mound and didnt look like the good schilling. but im talking out my ass here. it would be interesting to hear how his velocity was. i think everyone should view him as "injured/not good until he proves otherwise".

[BigD226]

[ QUOTE ]
I think calling putting Schilling in the bullpen "a brilliant move" is just not right. I'm not gonna tell you its awful and a fuckup, because it isnt, but it's not genius or brilliant.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough...I still think it's brilliant, but no matter what you have to admit that its certainly gutsy and shows that this group is thinking outside the box to solve a big problem.


[ QUOTE ]
I talk with sox fans and argue about the relative strength of the two teams, and when I point out the sox rotation, isnt really stellar, they say "well when we get schill back after the AS break we'll be awesome". My point is, don't count on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

We'll see about that. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
it would be interesting to hear how his velocity was.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reports say he hit 96mph in Pawtucket, 92-93 consistently.

[Los Feliz Slim]

[ QUOTE ]
so it boils down to this. he doesnt have the ability to be top notch over a full game right now. cool, instead of building himself back up at AAA he does it from the pen.

[/ QUOTE ]

My question is this: what's the best way to get Schilling back to 100%? Because if we're moving him to the pen to help the Sox as they're struggling, but not taking the best route to getting him healthy, I'm very unhappy about it. We need him starting in the playoffs, and I don't want to sacrifice that for better middle-inning relief in late July.

But, if we're killing two birds with one stone, nursing him back to health while helping out the club, this is inspired. I'm just thinking that if it were THAT easy, why hasn't it been done before?

[Voltron87]

I'll believe it when I see it. To me he's injured until he pitches well in the majors.

[pryor15]

[ QUOTE ]
But, if we're killing two birds with one stone, nursing him back to health while helping out the club, this is inspired. I'm just thinking that if it were THAT easy, why hasn't it been done before?

[/ QUOTE ]

the M's did this a couple of years ago w/ Randy Johnson, IIRC

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But, if we're killing two birds with one stone, nursing him back to health while helping out the club, this is inspired. I'm just thinking that if it were THAT easy, why hasn't it been done before?

[/ QUOTE ]

the M's did this a couple of years ago w/ Randy Johnson, IIRC

[/ QUOTE ]

smoltz did it too. Almost didn't go back permanently.

[sublime]

when I point out the sox rotation, isnt really stellar

its all relative. having the best rotation in the division (close with TOR i admit) is good enough for me for now.

it would be interesting to hear how his velocity was

the juiced down version has him at 94 tops and 89-91 on consistent basis.

[sublime]

anyways, on to real bullpen news. foulke is getting scoped Thursday, which IMO is great news for the organization. it means this guy probably HASNT lost it and hopefully can contribute this year. 4-6 weeks in the initial verdict for an injury that has gotten progressively worse for foulke over a few years (francona).

[sublime]

scott cassidy called up:

ERA WHIP BAA DIPS xERA ERC H/9 R/9 HR/9 BB/9 K/9 K/BB
3.81 1.27 .240 3.13 3.25 3.10 7.9 4.4 0.6 3.5 9.9 2.8

scouting report from soxprospects:

Scouting Report: A converted starter in 2002, Cassidy has shown some flashes of excellence out of the pen. Cassidy throws mainly a fastball and a change, with an occasional curve. Borderline Major Leaguer.

pitched in majors in '02 for jays 58 games and 66 IP. 12hr, 32 bb, 7HBP, 48k's.

[Los Feliz Slim]

Thoughts in reponse to info in the Globe (Globe article (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/07/07/damon_makes_a_strong_pitch_for_timlin/?page=2)):

-If they're actually thinking about Dan Kolb, they are on crack.

-Guardado is fine, but I'd rather have Wagner or Benitez.

-Damon needs to shut his hole on the situation, and pronto.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
Thoughts in reponse to info in the Globe (Globe article (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/07/07/damon_makes_a_strong_pitch_for_timlin/?page=2)):

-If they're actually thinking about Dan Kolb, they are on crack.

-Guardado is fine, but I'd rather have Wagner or Benitez.

-Damon needs to shut his hole on the situation, and pronto.

[/ QUOTE ]

i am in no rush for either one of those guys, lets not forget if we get eddie, we are paying too much to begin with AND he is under contract next year for something in the area of 5-7m. seems a bit much, especially since there is a chance (who knows how big or small) that foulke will come back to be just as effective either the tail end of this year or next year.

in defense (slight) of JD, the players apparently learned of this move from the media, so they were a bit caught off guard to say the least.

[porkchop]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This wouldn't happen in a million years but I had a brainstorming idea for the Sox bullpen woes. Curt Schilling as the closer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which would be a silly, reactionary move.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice call, genius.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This wouldn't happen in a million years but I had a brainstorming idea for the Sox bullpen woes. Curt Schilling as the closer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which would be a silly, reactionary move.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice call, genius.

[/ QUOTE ]

hes right. if/when schilling is fully capable of being a SP, then its not a good move. since hes apparently not, then its a good move /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Dead]

I'm gonna see Schill pitch over the weekend against my Skychiefs here in Syracuse. I have seats behind the bullpen on both Saturday and Sunday, and I'll be sure to wear my Yankees cap and shout nasty things at him when he's warming. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Jack of Arcades]

The Red Sox would like to welcome Chad Bradford to the bullpen... sometime in the future (Bradford's on the 60-day).

[craig r]

Yeah, ESPN is saying that it can't be announced until after the All Star break because you can't make a trade with a disabled player until he is activated.

craig

[sublime]

Yeah, ESPN is saying that it can't be announced until after the All Star break because you can't make a trade with a disabled player until he is activated.

which is false, but why should ESPN be held to a high standard?

[Voltron87]

3 games in the loss column, getting closer...

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
3 games in the loss column, getting closer...

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, your kidding right?

[Voltron87]

uh no. how are we not closer to you?

[sublime]

me? i dont play baseball for the sox.

as for 'you' being closer, its not really a worry of mine. i am more concerned with theo retooling the team for the second half.

[Voltron87]

i've cut the gap to 3.5.


well yeah in the long run the gb doesnt it doesn't make a huge difference day to day but im happy about it. your closer situation is really, really bad and can hurt you. just as if gordon is hurt we (i) are (am) [censored].

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
i've cut the gap to 3.5.


well yeah in the long run the gb doesnt it doesn't make a huge difference day to day but im happy about it. your closer situation is really, really bad and can hurt you. just as if gordon is hurt we (i) are (am) [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

shall i point out the many NYY flaws? not today /images/graemlins/grin.gif

simple fact is, the NYY are not as good as the red sox. no foulke is almost as good (probably better) as the foulke that was being trotted out there. does the bullen look shaky? of course it does. however, i it has been awful all year and yet the sox have 'somehow' managed to build a lead over thier next opponent.

[Voltron87]

we shall see.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
we shall see.

[/ QUOTE ]

we HAVE seen

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we shall see.

[/ QUOTE ]

we HAVE seen

[/ QUOTE ]

ahaha, youre calling the season with a 3 game lead halfway through when both teams have weaknesses that could cripple them. neither look good. i love it.

[sublime]

i didnt call the season. ugh, nevermind.

[Voltron87]

no i know.

this whole season has been new to me, this idea of "fighting for a playoff spot". strange. im used to going 6-7 up and just waiting for the postseason. kind of fun so far.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
no i know.

this whole season has been new to me, this idea of "fighting for a playoff spot". strange. im used to going 6-7 up and just waiting for the postseason. kind of fun so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

baseball RULES!

[mikeyp]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/scorecard/07/08/truth.rumors.mlb/index.html

Kaplar may be coming back!
[ QUOTE ]
The Red Sox are attempting to finalize details of an agreement with Japan's Yomiuri Giants that would allow outfielder Gabe Kapler to return to Boston.
--Boston Globe

[/ QUOTE ]

[mikeyp]

Heres the original url from the Globe.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/thebuzz/

Also there is some news on there of a possible Payton for the A's Chad Bradford.

[sublime]

<font color="black">Foulke on WEEI with Michael Holley &amp; John Valentin </font>

Played new Foulke entrance music (something with country boy in the title).

Holley: What’s up with the new theme song?

KF: Listen to the words and you’ll understand. It’s classic Hank Williams. They’re not going to make me run no matter what happens.

MH: Keith, it’s good to have you back. John Valentin is here and he wants you to know he was 1-5 against you.

KF: Laughs

JV: Congratulations. You did a great job last year. You deserve a lot of props. You came in here with high expectations. We talked a while back about the media and fan's expectations and you did a great job.

KF: Thanks. Hope we can get back there again.

JV: You still have that hockey mentality. Always want to take the ball and you should be recognized for that.

KF: I’m always going to battle. As bad as I want to pitch, I wasn’t helping the team. Mentally it was starting to break me down a bit.

JV: Your velocity is down a bit. Fastball isn’t beating guys. Location is missing. I commend you for still having the bulldog mentality.

KF: It got to the point where I’ve been working on mechanics all summer. Wasn’t working keeping my lower half strong. It affected my velocity. Let’s try to fix this and come back for a couple of months strong.

MH: Did Tito initiate talk of the knee?

KF: We talk a lot. It was at the point where I couldn’t consistently help the team. I was thinking how will I screw this thing up? Something that as a player in this organization, we talk about this stuff (health) in spring training. I felt strong. I was ready to go through it. Looking back, I wish I had done it earlier.

MH: How long has your knee been bothering you?

KF: Long enough that I can’t remember. I got used to it. ‘02 is when it started bothering me. We just couldn’t keep doing it. I couldn’t really help the team any more. Physically it was hard and mentally I couldn’t do it anymore. I go out there with a tough mentality and it was getting harder and harder to forget the previous day.

MH: After the scope, we hear out 4-6 weeks? Could it be sooner?

KF: Dr. Gill explained what he did but I was still groggy. Rehab begins today at 1:30. Will know later today what the doctor actually did.

MH on Curt:

What’s your thought on Curt’s new role?

KF: He’s a pitcher. He can definitely pitch in the back half of the pen. He can set up. He can close no problem. Question is, how long? How your body recovers is important.

MH: Have you spoken to Curt?

KF: No.

MH asked for response to Johnny Damon’s remarks:

KF: (Long hesitation) Didn’t hear what JD said. (MH offered up some of JD's comments). There are guys who can definitely get the job done down there. I’m not saying CS doesn’t have the mentality to do it.

MH: Are you concerned about him being successful? Would it bother you?

KF: Not at all. I want the team to win. It doesn’t matter. If they’re better off without me me, I’ll do whatever.

JV: Come on, you know you’ll go back to being the closer.

KF: No doubt the future has CS in the rotation. He’s one of the best in baseball. My point is still that I’ll do whatever needs to be done. We want to go out and win another WS. If we do this now (scope), we have the AS break. I should be back by mid-Aug the latest. Lots of business to be taken care of.

MH: Now that you had surgery, would you say you had an excuse, that you were affected by injury?

KF: No way to tell. I never got in sync. Just one small stretch. Right knee also needs it done but I can’t recover from both this season. I have to go out there and battle. Left will hopefully make the right knee stronger.

MH: There’s a story about guys being upset at Tito for AS game. Tito should have found a way. Did you pick up on that?

KF: Those 2 guys deserved to make the game. Mike is getting long in the tooth. He’s the ultimate professional. Never complains. So supportive. Deserves to be an AS. Matt’s numbers. Held the team together without Curt. Lots of things Terry is dealing with. League has taking over a lot of the responsibility. Having one guy from every team needs to be eliminated. Not a whole lot he can do. He talked to us and was pretty emotionally. I’d love to buy Timlin a slot. You never know, maybe it’ll still happen.

MH: You don’t like the every team must be represented rule.

KF: You’re one of the 32 best in the league. Your team isn’t one of the best in the league but you get a player on the team. It’s just not right. Should be the best of the best

MH: What’s Terry’s status in the clubhouse? There’s a story that Payton’s going to Oakland. Story is he got in to a shouting match with Tito and Mills in TX. Does Terry have respect in the clubhouse.?

KF: 100%. We have a philosophy. Do certain things a certain way. It’s hard for Jay to platoon. I hate to hear teammates go through stuff like that I hope we’ll be a better team because of it. Regarding Bradford: “I’m pretty good friends with Chad. Another country boy coming to town. I played with him in Oakland. (Back to his new theme song) Listen, you’ll know what I’m talking about. Fans/media don’t like me but I’m not going to run away.

MH: Would you do anything differently regarding your relationship with the fans and media?

KF: What I said, if you know me as a person, you’d understand that. If they put the entire story in the paper, it wouldn’t have been that bad. People think we think we’re better than them. That’s not true. We just have a different job. I don’t put myself above anybody I just have a sense of humor.

JV: Looking back on it, would you have still come to Boston knowing what you know now?

KF: Oh yeah. Boston is my favorite place I’ve ever played. Chicago was easy to play but it’s not Boston. I don’t want to play any place else. A couple more years here. Couple more championships. I was trying to have fun last week. Boo me and I won’t invite you to my world series party. Hands down fans are the best. Fans boo because they care. I‘m not going anywhere unless they get rid of me. Bottom line, I’m still a regular person and want to see the team win.

MH: Did you watch the game last night?

KF: It’s hard. This is my first time on the DL. Hard to watch TV. Don’t like that I’m not there. It sucks.

MH: Manny, Rent, Tek didn’t play. Surprised?

KF: Look at whole picture. When did they get in? I heard close to 6:00. One of those deals people need to realize. 162 games is a long season. If they need to rest guys to make them stronger the next 3 games. Sometime you need days off. You need to play guys on the bench to keep them strong. People need to understand that. This is what the team needs to do to win a WS. It’s hard for people but everything happens for a reason. Accept it as a positive, not a negative

MH: Well, the AS break is coming up

KF. Ever played in TX? Just go stand in your oven. You don’t see it on TV but it’s 92 after the sun goes down. 3 days in TX followed by getting to a city at dawn. It’s tough. Maybe you give guys off. Maybe you should just support it.

MH: That’s not very good for radio

KF: The way some of the people on your station bash me. People bag on me. It makes me laugh. One person told me one of the other shows people were getting on me pretty good.

MH: Don’t trust reporters. Don’t believe everything you read.

KF: We should have John on here every week. A player on the inside to keep everything level.

MH: Have you been told what to expect today (therapy).

KF: I’m walking around yesterday thinking the doctor didn’t do anything. I might be back by the end of the weekend. I woke up today and had to send someone to the car to get my cane.

MH: Enjoy rehab.


Couple of points:

1) Foulke sounded like a new man. Say what you want about how much these guys make and how they should deal with boos and the media, but the fact is most fans are uninformed (or morons, the ones who boo thier own players after a bad performance) and the media has to be a burden. I want to punch the radio twice a day listening to them spout misinformation and half truths, i can only imagine what its like dealing with them face to face.

2) looks like Bradford is the guy for Payton. Mike Myers from the right side basically. Oh well, Payton didnt want to be here and they get a guy who has experiance and is good against RH.

3)Media sucks

[sublime]

Bradford trade is official

[mjohnson406]

[ QUOTE ]

-Guardado is fine, but I'd rather have Wagner or Benitez.


[/ QUOTE ]
Benitez has been injured since April

[sublime]

Apparently Craig Hansen has been signed. Details forthcoming......

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently Craig Hansen has been signed. Details forthcoming......

[/ QUOTE ]

Hansen (http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=95070)

[sublime]

Manny Delcarmen called up (or will be tomorrow) here are his numbers this year and scouting report:

AAA

9 IP's 12 K's 4 BB 0 HR

AA
39 IP's 49 k's 20 BB 3 HR

[ QUOTE ]
Scouting Report: Boston native always dreamed of playing for the Sox. His career was on the fast track with a mid 90s fastball, and a great curveball - until he injured himself in May 2003. Delcarmen had Tommy John surgery in May 2003, but returned to the mound a year later in May 2004. Post-surgery, Delcarmen's fastball may have actually gained velocity, as he has topped out in the high 90s. Delcarmen has average control, with decent changeup and a very good curve which he uses as his out pitch. Delcarmen's father played in the Phillies Organization.

[/ QUOTE ]

Source (http://www.soxprospects.com/players/delcarmen-manny.htm)


EDIT: God I hope Halama is gone.

[Toro]

didnt want to start a new thread but am frustrated. Nixon has to be the worst baserunner ever. Lousy President too.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
didnt want to start a new thread but am frustrated. Nixon has to be the worst baserunner ever. Lousy President too.

[/ QUOTE ]

that was bad luck, but yes he is horrendous.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
didnt want to start a new thread but am frustrated. Nixon has to be the worst baserunner ever. Lousy President too.

[/ QUOTE ]

that was bad luck, but yes he is horrendous.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a great game so far.

[Toro]

wow did we steal a call at 2nd?

[ QUOTE ]
wow did we steal a call at 2nd?

[/ QUOTE ]

Crawford was safe in my opinion.

[Toro]

Good game trot.

This was the first extra inning game that the Red Sox have played this season. That is surprising, considering that they have played 4 series with the Yankees already.