REALLY?

[DarrenX]

My friend (decaff77) sent me this hand... thoughts and results later. Oh, and if you think it's an easy call at the $10 level, at what level is it a tough decision? Thanx.

> #Game No : 2249024372
> ***** Hand History for Game 2249024372 *****
> NL Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:13329963
> Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Wednesday, June 22, 23:52:17
> EDT 2005
> Table Table 11476 (Real Money)
> Seat 10 is the button
> Total number of players : 10
> Seat 4: Golfer376 ( $770 )
> Seat 5: RCH2004 ( $785 )
> Seat 8: gsteban29 ( $955 )
> Seat 9: thewizard49 ( $670 )
> Seat 1: decaff77 ( $785 )
> Seat 7: wutdaphuck ( $800 )
> Seat 3: snidley26 ( $800 )
> Seat 6: haystacks_ ( $785 )
> Seat 10: ButchReaper ( $945 )
> Seat 2: Ragz_2_Richs ( $705 )
> Trny:13329963 Level:1
> Blinds(10/15)
> ** Dealing down cards **
> Dealt to decaff77 [ Ts 6s ]
> snidley26 calls [15].
> Golfer376 folds.
> RCH2004 folds.
> haystacks_ folds.
> wutdaphuck calls [15].
> gsteban29 calls [15].
> thewizard49 calls [15].
> ButchReaper folds.
> decaff77 calls [5].
> Ragz_2_Richs checks.
> ** Dealing Flop ** [ As, Js, 2s ]
> decaff77 checks.
> Ragz_2_Richs checks.
> snidley26 bets [25].
> wutdaphuck folds.
> gsteban29 calls [25].
> thewizard49 raises [150].
> decaff77 raises [300].
> Ragz_2_Richs folds.
> snidley26 calls [275].
> gsteban29 is all-In [915]
> thewizard49 is all-In [505]
> decaff77

[Apathy]

I wouldn't fold this at any level spread on party poker. Especially not at the 11s.

**There might be a rare game in the 215s where i knew both allin players to be pros that I *might fold this, but that's it.

[Myst]

Id fold this if two players were all in at the 55s.

[wulfheir]

i fold this PF.

if i do play this, i'm playing it for it's flush possibility, which hit, so I call the all-in.

but more importantly, I fold this PF, then again, i'm losing at the 11s.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
i fold this PF.

if i do play this, i'm playing it for it's flush possibility, which hit, so I call the all-in.

but more importantly, I fold this PF, then again, i'm losing at the 11s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding this PF is mistake (one that is VERY common among people on these boards) , as is justifying calling by saying I have a flush I HAVE to call.

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]
i fold this PF.

if i do play this, i'm playing it for it's flush possibility, which hit, so I call the all-in.

but more importantly, I fold this PF, then again, i'm losing at the 11s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why in the world would you fold preflop for 5 chips? I understand playing tight early, but this is entirely too tight.

[wulfheir]

well, there's one leak I can patch.

[wulfheir]

Is the seat list out of order? I didn't realize it was just a 5chip call.

[kamrann]

I have no idea about the $10's really - I would guess easy call. I don't think your second question can really be answered though. If you look at the action on the flop, it's eminently clear that most, if not all, of the players involved are playing like idiots - they can't all have the nut flush. I just don't think this series of actions would ever occur at a level where people were playing vaguely sensibly, so it doesn't make sense to ask whether you would make the call in other games.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
well, there's one leak I can patch.

[/ QUOTE ]

that depends. if you misplay these hands post-flop you will open an even bigger leak. tread lightly.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
If you look at the action on the flop, it's eminently clear that most, if not all, of the players involved are playing like idiots - they can't all have the nut flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know that they are all idiots. I would guess that one of them is drawing to the nut flush (I mean, this is kind of boneheaded, but whatever), one probably hit a set and is hoping hes against the draw. Maybe even AJ or something.

Oh and I'd call in a heartbeat (although I'd fear a lot of cards falling (any spade, any board pair)). I've not played at a level yet where this wouldn't be the case.

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]
Is the seat list out of order? I didn't realize it was just a 5chip call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep...

[ QUOTE ]
> decaff77 calls [5].

[/ QUOTE ]

In regards to the other poster's advice, yes... tread lightly. Don't overvalue middle pair or top pair with a weak kicker. You're mostly playing for flopped straights, flushes, boats, trips, etc. Unless you get a great flop, give up the hand. But usually it's worth the 5 chips to take this chance, as your implied odds are ridiculous.

[schwza]

i'd call. one reason is that the hands that beat you are pretty unlikely, except KsQs. the next most reasonable hand is Ks9s, and that will get folded pre-flop often.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd call. one reason is that the hands that beat you are pretty unlikely, except KsQs. the next most reasonable hand is Ks9s, and that will get folded pre-flop often.

[/ QUOTE ]

It will also be limped in quite often at the 10s.

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]
the next most reasonable hand is Ks9s, and that will get folded pre-flop often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget this is a 10+1. I've seen plenty worse than that come in for 15 chips.

I'd still call though, but like one of the other posters said, there are probably quite a few cards I'd like to avoid on the next 2 streets.

[autobet]

I would call at this level. I might take more time at the $100+ level, but might still end up calling. But you are unlikely to see this kind of action on a suited flop above the $20 level.

Your call before the flop is automatic. With the 2 sb and 3 bb chip bling structure you can call with any two cards. This applies more so if they are suited.

[adanthar]

The real problem is this wimpy 3 bet for almost half your stack for no apparent reason. Push the first time or call it and CR a blank turn, but don't do this.

Also, there is clearly another flush here, possibly 2 flushes, plus something like AJ or AxKs. You're getting a whole lot to 1 to check how high those flushes are so you may as well call *now*, but that 3 bet really sucked.

[J Chap]

Yeah - I've been reading this whole thing, wondering when somebody would finally suggest making a different play on the flop. I might have even led out with a nice little bet like 25 or 30 chips, because somebody's bound to raise that [censored]. Either way, you have GOT to push your chips, because you flopped a weak, vulnerable flush. a.k.a. great now, weak later.

i say give the various drawers a chance to fold - you want to be all-in here against maybe one other douche - like somebody holding the king of spades or AJ.

you gotta try to get everybody else outta there, or your odds start sucking a old man's ball.

respeck,
J Chap

[DarrenX]

WOW... wow... lot of action.

Thanks for the responses. I've had approximately 2 games experience at the 10s- I figured with the action presented there was NO WAY he could be ahead, and additionally he's drawing dead. The result: he called- one guy had A7o (TpWk), one had K4s (nut flush), and one had a set of 2s, which filled up on the river.

I can't say that I agreed with his betting pattern, but as it played out (big raiser before him, two all ins after his reraise), I think it definitely showed he was beat. Then again, I saw the result before I had a chance to comment so I *could* be biased... /images/graemlins/smirk.gif).

[skipperbob]

WayCool post for a Newbie; Welcome to the Forum; Buckel-up /images/graemlins/confused.gif