RicktheRuler Wonders Are Asians in USA Determiemend to be Parasites?

[adios]

As a courtesy to RicktheRuler:

[ QUOTE ]
This is a little off topic, so I apologize if I set this discussion in the wrong discussion. I was talking with an Asian friend of mine the other day about a variety of subjects and we began talking about asians living in America.

He basically suggested to me, that there is sort of an unspoken understanding between asians living in America. Essentially, they are determined to live in America as parasites. He said that Asians come to America to profit from our free education and capitalism, but make every effort not to "give back" to the good 'ol USA. They do this by working almost exclusively with other asian companies--or if they work for a large corporation they spend as much is possible within there own community. I have lived in a variety of places throughout the country and in every single one of them there was an area filled with primarily asian businesses and residents. He went on to say that the most America will get from them is a "Sambo like smile" and some chicken fried rice. Yes, he was a little intoxicated, but nonetheless sincere.

I am doing a real poor job of explaining this, but I think you guys are smart enough to see what he was saying.

Any thoughts on this?

[/ QUOTE ]

[kurto]

Doesn't ring true based on my experiences with Asians (friends, girlfriends and co-workers.)

[poker-penguin]

Yes.

They have slanty eyes and eat babies too.

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't ring true based on my experiences with Asians (friends, girlfriends and co-workers.)

[/ QUOTE ]

He suggested to me that we--whitey--are "supposed" view aians (he was Viet, but was speaking about asians as a whole) like Sambos. Essentially, he was talking about how asians utilize their invisibility (like in Invisible Man, Ellison or Notes From the Underground, Dostoevsky) in America.

I would like to send a special thanks to Adios for making this a new thread. He seems to determined to become a forum moderator and I for one think he would do a fantastic job. If you need a letter of reference to submit with your resume, send me a PM and I will be happy to help. I can't wait to seem your name in green. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[spamuell]

[ QUOTE ]
He said that Asians come to America to profit from our free education and capitalism, but make every effort not to "give back" to the good 'ol USA

[/ QUOTE ]

http://img179.echo.cx/img179/2733/immigrant0ap.gif

[sam h]

Why would you start this thread, which is clearly absurd on many levels? Anybody who has spent a lot of time with Asian-Americans knows both that this is not true and that implying that they have some common stance vis-a-vis America is ridiculous.

[lehighguy]

As somone that grew up in a community that was majority Asian-American, this is a pile of crap.

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
As somone that grew up in a community that was majority Asian-American, this is a pile of crap.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you understand the concept of Invisibility as put forth by Dostoevsky and Ellison, this is SUPPOSED to sound like a pile of crap.

[RicktheRuler]

Also, this concept of creating a country within America is often discussed among people of Persian descent. If you think this is untrue, come to my house and we will tell you about it.

[lehighguy]

Sigh.

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
Sigh.

[/ QUOTE ]

[RicktheRuler]

Quote:
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If you look back over 200 years, most groups that came here initially did that. It just makes sense. Eventually immigrant groups begin to assimilate.


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Schocking that someone took the time to think about the question without labeling it ridiculous.

Yes, other immigrant groups have existed as "countries within a country"--Italians are a great example. However, these groups were marginalized by the majority and eventually were able to assimilate. My friends point was that the "new immigrant" has no desire to assimilate. If fact, they avoid it as much as they can. I thought this could have made for a curious discussion, but apparently not.

[hetron]

Within many immigrant communities these days, there is an ultra-nationalist group that think of America as a good place to make money in and ship it back to the motherland. They think of America as an acultural capitalist wasteland with no soul, imperialist leaders, and have an intense distrust of people outside of their ethnic community. However, these people, who many times work as small business owners, often know that expressing such views would hurt their bottom line and are capable of smiling and going along with what they think "Americans" want to hear. However, when they are at hangouts where they feel comfortable that only their own is around, they will usually end up revealing their true thoughts and feelings. I have seen it or heard of it happening many a time. The fact that most non-immigrant types aren't aware of the type is consistent with the fact that these people wouldn't let their feelings be known among people they don't feel safe around.

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
Within many immigrant communities these days, there is an ultra-nationalist group that think of America as a good place to make money in and ship it back to the motherland. They think of America as an acultural capitalist wasteland with no soul, imperialist leaders, and have an intense distrust of people outside of their ethnic community.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that is pretty much what he said. Although, he replaced distrust with intense dislike.

I am not sure why Adios and others found this concept to be so ridiculous. (In case you didnt notice Adios thought this idea was so outlandish he created a new thread for me, attempting to make me look foolish.) I found it funny that he was so blown away by the absurdity of my post--keep in mind i was just reiterating what another asian american said to me--that he posted the new thread "Determeimend..." what a JOPKE.

RickTheRuler

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you start this thread, which is clearly absurd on many levels? Anybody who has spent a lot of time with Asian-Americans knows both that this is not true and that implying that they have some common stance vis-a-vis America is ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ricktheruler attempted a hijak and adios got pissed.

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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Why would you start this thread, which is clearly absurd on many levels? Anybody who has spent a lot of time with Asian-Americans knows both that this is not true and that implying that they have some common stance vis-a-vis America is ridiculous.


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Ricktheruler attempted a hijak and adios got pissed.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that is bascially what happened. I took exception to the fact that he and other ridiculed my post, labeling it "absurd" and "ridiculous". Adios and his cohorts (yes that is a joke) went on to say that asian americans having a nationalist agenda and an unspoken dislike of America and what it represents to them is crazy. Why? Becuase they have asian friends or they grew up around asians--so they know. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Get real. As another poster pointed out this is a rather common amongst immigrant groups. I thought the interesting part was that these groups no longer have the desire to assimilate.

[lehighguy]

Your post is getting a bit more intelligible. There is that sentiment in abundance. But there is also a lot of other sentiments. Many that come here come here because they dislike things within thier own system. Many come here with that sentiment but later assimilate. People don't move to another country halfway accross the world if they hate everything about it, no matter what the monetary reason.

Nevertheless, I think the claim that they contribute nothing to society is a bit off base. They contribute quite alot. In fact they are filling the deficiencies in our system.

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
Your post is getting a bit more intelligible. There is that sentiment in abundance. But there is also a lot of other sentiments. Many that come here come here because they dislike things within thier own system. Many come here with that sentiment but later assimilate. People don't move to another country halfway accross the world if they hate everything about it, no matter what the monetary reason.

Nevertheless, I think the claim that they contribute nothing to society is a bit off base. They contribute quite alot. In fact they are filling the deficiencies in our system.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just put the idea up there. Once again, this was just what someone from within one of the aforementioned immigrant groups told me. I simply thought someone could post a thought or two and keep it moving. I was baffled by the quick posts attemting make me look like an idiot.

The fact is, I was just repeating what someone told me. Secondly, I thought most people were aware that at least a sub group of these immigrant groups make an effort to isolate themselves from mainstream America.

[lehighguy]

They don't have a desire to assimilate because they don't respect whitey. Italians, Irish, and others assimilated because they respected WASPs as far as culture, work, education, business and other matters were concerned. They respected thier success.

Asians don't respect American success because they don't feel it is earned. Whitey just stole everything he needed. And he doesn't have the means to maintain his own society, hence the need to import immigrants. Early American immigrants felt that early Americans build the country themselfs.

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
Nevertheless, I think the claim that they contribute nothing to society is a bit off base. They contribute quite alot. In fact they are filling the deficiencies in our system.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did I say this?

[lehighguy]

Without providing background, it sounded like you were implying we need to get rid of them or something. It seemed like another xenophobic anti-foriegner post where you make some grand generalization about a immigrant conspiracy. Its best to put all of your thoughts in one long OP then try to reply to a million questions when people misinterpret.

[lehighguy]

"Essentially, they are determined to live in America as parasites. He said that Asians come to America to profit from our free education and capitalism, but make every effort not to "give back" to the good 'ol USA. They do this by working almost exclusively with other asian companies--or if they work for a large corporation they spend as much is possible within there own community."

Perhaps it is what the other guy said. Without giving your opinion it seems like you endorse stiffing the US.

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
"Essentially, they are determined to live in America as parasites. He said that Asians come to America to profit from our free education and capitalism, but make every effort not to "give back" to the good 'ol USA. They do this by working almost exclusively with other asian companies--or if they work for a large corporation they spend as much is possible within there own community."

Perhaps it is what the other guy said. Without giving your opinion it seems like you endorse stiffing the US.

[/ QUOTE ]

Legigh-

I appreciate you responding to my posts with some thought and giving me advice on posting in the future. However, with all due respect, I think you are wrong.

I think it my OP was clear. It was a passing thought I had when reading that particular thread and decided to share it with 2+2 in case in brought forth any interesting discussion. I clearly said that this is what an asian american friend of mine told me. I didn't include my opinion, but does that warrant the conclusion that I was suggesting we should get rid of asians in america? Perhaps I should have included the fact that I am privy to many things within the asian community that "outsiders" are not. However, I felt this would just open me up to flaming.


You also suggested that others may have thought I was endorsing "stiffing" the US. I find it incredible people would jump to such ludicrious conclusions. Especially two opposing conclusions when no information was given either way.

I do not want to spend anymore time on this. Adios and Crew can jump to whatever conclusions they want, post cartoons to embarass me and so on. The fact is, this concept is not "absurd" or "ridiculous" it is true and permeates many immigrant cultures in this country.

[Victor]

i have lots of asian friends.

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
They don't have a desire to assimilate because they don't respect whitey.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is dead on.

[ QUOTE ]
Asians don't respect American success because they don't feel it is earned.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right again.

[ QUOTE ]
Italians, Irish, and others assimilated because they respected WASPs as far as culture, work, education, business and other matters were concerned. They respected thier success.



[/ QUOTE ]

I would argue that many Italians--not just Mafioso--made a strong effort to live as Italians in America (hope that makes sense).

My question is, what does this mean to america? We are a country built on the backs of immigrants. However, the immigrant of the past was something different than the immigrant of today, which you succinctly explained in your post. Does this feeling of distrust/dislike of america among today's immigrants have any serious potential consequences for america.


/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I knew we'd get to the meat and potatoes eventually.

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you start this thread, which is clearly absurd on many levels? Anybody who has spent a lot of time with Asian-Americans knows both that this is not true and that implying that they have some common stance vis-a-vis America is ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sam-

I am curious if after reading how this thread developed if you still think what my friend said was so "absurd". /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[bholdr]

read:

"No-No Boy" by John Okada

it will answer your question.

[lehighguy]

With another post on the board about "China Taking Over the World" I kinduv lumped the two togethor. I'm too used to dealing with irrational immigrant haters.

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
"No-No Boy" by John Okada

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I will definitely pick it up.

[lehighguy]

There are serious issues at work. But I think that Asians and Whites get along a lot better then your implying. A lot of it is simply wanting comfort in an uncomfortable situation. The longer thier here the more they integrate. Many of the Asian's I grew up with deeply respect the freedoms and choices they have here in America. They don't have them in Asia, even the democratic countries (there are cultural constraints).

Also, it is not so muhc dislike, as disrespect. They think we are lazy. They respect educated professional Americans, I'm sure they respect Bill Gates, they just don't respect the average schmoo on the street.

The best parallel I can think for this is Khan from King of the Hill. If you've ever seen that show, especially the ones that center around him and his relationship with Hank (like the one where he loses his job) then you'll understand.

Does this attitude have consequences, sure. But I think it is a symptom of a much larger core problem, that American's aren't respected anymore. I'm not talking about some foriegn policy UN bullshit, I'm talking about the fact that we are fat, lazy, uneducated, and we complain alot. If Americans conducted themselves in a respectable manner, we would have thier respect, and they would integrate.

[player24]

[ QUOTE ]
it is not so muhc dislike, as disrespect. They think we are lazy

[/ QUOTE ]

Ironically, perhaps, this is the same 'relation' that Americans have with Europeans. We (Americans)work harder than Europeans (in aggregate)and the Asians (in aggregate) work harder than us (Americans).

[bholdr]

"No-No Boy" by John Okada


"Thanks. I will definitely pick it up. "

It is one of the best novels that has ever been written, IMHO. It's about a japanese in post-WWII seattle that returns to his home in seattle after refusing the draft in the war and serving time in prison for the refusal. He has to come to grips with the fact that he percieves himself as neither a japanese nor an american, and through his search for a resolution for his guilt and the inter-generational conflicts among the immagrant community, he begins to understand the nature of America and what it means to transition from being an immigrant to being an american.

From the book:

"He had long forgotten when it was that he discarded a notion of a return to Japan, but remambered only that it was the time that this country that he had no intention of loving suddenly begun to become a part of him because it was a part of his children, and he saw and felt it in their speech and joys and sorrows and hopes and he was a part of them and in the dying of the foolish dreams which he had brought to america, The richness of the life that was possible in this foreign country destroyed the longing for a past that must not have been as precious as he imagined or else he surely would not have left it"

[BCPVP]

"If I could be a superhero, I'd be immigration dude
I'd send all the foreigners back to their homes
for eating up all of our food.
And taking our welfare and best jobs to boot,
like landscaping, dishwashing, and picking our fruit.
I'd pass a lot of laws to get rid of their brood.
'Cuz I'd be immigration dude."
~Stephen Lynch

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
It is one of the best novels that has ever been written, IMHO. It's about a japanese in post-WWII seattle that returns to his home in seattle after refusing the draft in the war and serving time in prison for the refusal. He has to come to grips with the fact that he percieves himself as neither a japanese nor an american, and through his search for a resolution for his guilt and the inter-generational conflicts among the immagrant community, he begins to understand the nature of America and what it means to transition from being an immigrant to being an american.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds similar to Leslie Marmon Silko's Ceremony. I have heard of No-No Boy but never read it myself. Essentially, Silko argues that the "entaglement" of all cultures and times is necessary to maintain an progressive/positive/etc. society.

It concerns me that many people--see the post above about not caring if people want to assimilate--do not recognize the importance of embracing our interconnectedness.

[vulturesrow]

In fact this is happening to a large degree within the hispanic community as well. My stepfather is Hispanic and I can tell you from my experiences from the summers I used to spend with him, that it is an entirely different world within the United States and there is no particular drive or desire to assimilate. My stepfather was somewhere in the middle. He did marry an American woman after all. After their divorce he returned to this tendency toward sticking with the Hispanic culture. Nothing wrong with some degree of pride in your origins but a country like this demands some sort of overiding commonality. What that is or should be, I dont profess to know. But we could start with the language. I literally went entire summers without speaking any English other than calling my mother on the phone or helping my father (who actually spoke pretty good English, albeit with a very heavy accent) on the rare occasions he spoke English and needed help getting a point across.

[lehighguy]

My mom works in one of these communities. It's really bad for the young Hispanic kids growing up. Unlike the Asian communities, which provide opportunities, the Hispanic communities do not. And language barriers end up preventing them from pursuing opportunities in the white community.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
My mom works in one of these communities. It's really bad for the young Hispanic kids growing up. Unlike the Asian communities, which provide opportunities, the Hispanic communities do not. And language barriers end up preventing them from pursuing opportunities in the white community.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldnt agree more.

[johnd192]

My mother was a Korean national. She has been a US citizen for about 30+years after being naturalized. I grew up around the Korean community which was somewhat large even for the South as we lived by a military base. Almost all the Korean's I know are either immigrants or first generation US citizens. Nearly everyone of them are professionals (Doctors, Engineers, Scientists, or Computer programmers) ,or own very profitable businesses (such as restaurants, laundromats, convienance stores, hotels). Our ties are still strong to Korea as we have relatives over there, but our home and country is the US of A. We contribute mightily to this great nation even for our small numbers.

Anyway the one large fallacy of the post is to try to lump all "Asian-Americans" into the image of this Vietnamese man. The second large fallacy is that "Asian-Americans" who benefit from "free" education and capitalism do not contribue back to the US. Those Asians who own a business here pay taxes. In fact they pay more taxes than the average worker bee. Those taxes give plenty back to the US. Secondly if they own homes they pay property taxes and those taxes pay for schools. I am not even sure why I am responding to this but I guess I would hope that this educates the poster so he won't so easily believe one vietnamese man's opinions.

We all know how stupid it is to try to categorize any large ethnic group. Yes I am sure there are immigrant groups who send money back to their families. I personally know of one Ukrainian mother who sends money back to her son in the Ukraine. Is it not the same when our US companies go oversees to capitilize on cheaper labor and send the profits back to the US? To label either as a parasite is being demeaning and ignorant. Perhaps the first generation of some immigrant groups don't or won't integrate but I can guarantee that future generations will. I myself refuse to be labeled Korean american or Asian american, I only want to be known as American. If someone asks my ancestry I tell them I am of Korean - Irish descent (fathers side) and proud to be an American.

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
We all know how stupid it is to try to categorize any large ethnic group.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen brother.

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We all know how stupid it is to try to categorize any large ethnic group.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen brother.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody is trying to do that. The post is about the "new immigrants" lack of desire to assimilate and general distrust/dislike of America(ns). Of course ALL immigrants do not feel this way. Of course ALL asians do not fit into this category. Neither do ALL hispanics--see recent post above.

Thanks for posting the obvious though.

[johnd192]

The original post's premise:
Essentially, they are determined to live in America as parasites.

The only question in the original post:
Any thoughts on this?

The only thing from the original post and what you just posted that makes sense now is:
I am doing a real poor job of explaining this

Nothing in your original post questions the lack of desire to assimilate in an obvious manner. It could be inferred loosely if you are smoking weed. But when you have comments like "parasites" and "give nothing back to the good ol USA" it doesn't make a clear unbiased question as to whether immigrants dislike/distrust/or dont want to integrate with Americans.
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Original Post by Ricktheruler:
This is a little off topic, so I apologize if I set this discussion in the wrong discussion. I was talking with an Asian friend of mine the other day about a variety of subjects and we began talking about asians living in America.

He basically suggested to me, that there is sort of an unspoken understanding between asians living in America. Essentially, they are determined to live in America as parasites. He said that Asians come to America to profit from our free education and capitalism, but make every effort not to "give back" to the good 'ol USA. They do this by working almost exclusively with other asian companies--or if they work for a large corporation they spend as much is possible within there own community. I have lived in a variety of places throughout the country and in every single one of them there was an area filled with primarily asian businesses and residents. He went on to say that the most America will get from them is a "Sambo like smile" and some chicken fried rice. Yes, he was a little intoxicated, but nonetheless sincere.

I am doing a real poor job of explaining this, but I think you guys are smart enough to see what he was saying.

Any thoughts on this?
----------

If the original post was about:
The post is about the "new immigrants" lack of desire to assimilate and general distrust/dislike of America(ns).

Then you already know the answer:
Of course ALL immigrants do not feel this way.

Where is the question in this. I mean this is a rhetorical type of question. Of course some immigrants don't want to assimilate or have a general distrust. All segments of society don't necessarily want to fit/trust/like other segments of society. Punkers/Freaks/Goths might not want to fit in like jocks/populars/etc. Poor people might not like/trust rich people. Union members might not like/trust employers. Ultraliberals don't trust conservatives and vice versa.

Now if you are asking why America is viewed in such a bad light well that is another discussion...

[RicktheRuler]

I apologize if I asked anyone to infer or the think about a topic. Next time, I'll just lay out the whole discussion for you to make it easier. If it was too difficult for you to "infer" that the post was about immigrant groups and what implications the beliefs and intentions of these groups could possibly have, I am sorry. I didn't want to treat the subject like an exam, so I just said "discuss." Next time I post a topic it will require a 25 page response with MLA citation and at least 20 resources.

I still don't understand why you keep suggesting that I called asians parasites. I clearly said this is something an asian american friend of mine said, "what do you think".

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
He basically suggested to me, that there is sort of an unspoken understanding between asians living in America. Essentially, they are determined to live in America as parasites. He said that Asians come to America to profit from our free education and capitalism, but make every effort not to "give back" to the good 'ol USA. They do this by working almost exclusively with other asian companies

[/ QUOTE ]

I think parasite may be a little strong but ther is some truth to the “closed community argument”

I live in an area that is rapidly becoming “little Korea” to quote the Washington Post. The Asian merchants only deal with Asian companies or merchants. They only hire within the Asian community and in a growing trend, they only advertise in Korean. It’s gone so far that some of the restaurants only offer Korean language menus. It’s grown to a point, that when it came time to elect a representative to the county government they had enough votes to elect an Asian candidate. They come over here as “political refugees” like my new next-door neighbor. He received a Federally guaranteed mortgage, plus a $500,000 Federal grant to start a business. On top of not having to repay the 500k he doesn’t have to pay Federal income tax for 5 years.

A Second example is there is a block where I was working in Baltimore; a Vietnamese group purchased a building to renovate as a nightclub. They sent to Virginia every day for Asian work crews instead of using local non-Asian labor. They threw a fit when they found out that they had to use a City approved non-Asian liquor distributor.

To a certain degree this is a little disturbing. Bring on the Canadian language police!

[RicktheRuler]

This is an excellent example. Coincidentally, it sounds like we're are neighbors.

I think this is a dangerous trend.