37 buyin downswings

[johnnybeef]

im down that much over the last 7 days...how common do you more experienced players experience a downswing of this magnitude, as im seriously starting to doubt my ability.

ps. i have had many downswings before, just none even remotely this bad.

[djj6835]

Worst point of the worst downswing I ever had was 90 buy ins. Needless to say I had to drop down in limits during this downswing. Other than that over several thousand SNGs I have only had two other 30+ buy in downswing along with two 20+ OOTM streaks. This is over the course of about 7000 10s,20s and 50s. I'm on quite a heater right now though so I'm bracing myself for the inevitable regression to the mean. These type of things happen sometimes. I looked at many hand histories during that 90 buy in downswing and saw a little bit of mini tilt but other than that I felt like I was playing the same way during the bad streak as I was during the good ones. If you were beating the game before it is probably just variance and things will turn around eventually. It still doesn't hurt to examine your game if you think something might be wrong.

[Sabrazack]

Oh my god, a 90 buyin downswing? Thats like totally horrendous. Ugh. What level was this at and what was your ROI there?

[CaptSensible]

i hear ya. im in a downswing myself. the thing is it seems that i get a nice run get a bit ahead and then hit a bad streak and can't win, losing whatever profits I've made. I'm not gonna go into a huge story but I play well and have learned a lot from reading these forums. I've posted a few hands that were common losses to my bad streak and was told that I played them correctly and just got some bad beats. The problem is those beats decimate my bank roll. I play the 11's at pp. I have 500 in my account and cashed out every hundred I won. I cashed out twice and my account now has 200 in it. YIKES! I go through the same feeling. I just don't have the ability. Thanks for your post. It's nice to know i aint alone here. Thanks for letting me vent /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[psyduck]

I'm down a BUNCH at the 30+3s. It's freaking insane. I steadily built up at 20+2 over a month or so (was definitely a winning player there), and I've consistently dropped 10 buyins a day this week. I have no idea why. Is it the new blind structure? Is it that I was never a winning player to begin with? FOCK!

(also, note that this isn't 30 buyins IN A ROW, it's 30 buyins over the span of 3 days where I'm 4-tabling ~8 hrs/day)

[kasey2004]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh my god, a 90 buyin downswing? Thats like totally horrendous. Ugh. What level was this at and what was your ROI there?

[/ QUOTE ]

holy funk, thats massive. And i thought that being OOTM for like 5 tourneys was bad. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/images/graemlins/spade.gif Kasey /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[chisness]

psy, i think every time i'm at your table i lose also, must be rubbing off on me too

i know many have played far more sngs than i have, but i played about 1000 last week and will assure you the bad streak and good streak rushes go both ways and you can win those 30 buyins back much quicker than you lost em

i noticed that my high blind aggression was probably a bit too great -- for example, with 3 players left and about 10 BB, a button double doesn't seem to get played back at by trash, but saves you when youd have been out in 3rd if you pushed

[psyduck]

is that you catchatori?

edit: oh yeah, buffallo grove that's right.

man, it's been horrible. I had a great week last week, up like 40 buyins. this week it's been a steady downswing. bleeehhhh

you do this for a living right? are swings like these common? after how long were you truly confident about your game?

[CaptSensible]

just 5??? holy cow.

[chisness]

haha i dont have a real job this summer but i do go to school in all non-summer seasons

i had streaks of probably 2 or 300 where i felt like i literally could not win any crucial hand, regardless of favorability

im pretty sure raptor said hes had 1k sng breakeven streaks and hes played far more than me

im still not extremely confident about things, but as you play more hands you get used to more situations, and when 12'ing it becomes a lot faster and easier -- i think ill feel good about things at 5k

btw, what in the world is catchatori? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Freudian]

My biggest downswing was 28 buyins. But that is looking just at end of day figures. I think I was up ~10 buyin towards the end of the last day of the bad streak.

So that would put my record at 38.

Today I reached my all time high, so I think I managed to get through the streak before I got scarred for life. But it is extremely frustrating because for a winning player to drop that many, there has to be absurd amounts of bad luck. Perhaps 20% of the drop to be attributed to some sort of tilt (just a wild guess), be it making poor choices at the table or playing when not in balance because you try to make it all back.

[psyduck]

Catchatori is some japanese food. I think I'm misspelling it.

Yeah, I don't have a real job this summer either (will afterwards though).

This downswing is frustrating as hell, I'll tell you that. You're exactly right, it's as if I can't win a hand at all. My pushes are met with AA or AK or something. If I do push and it's a coinflip or close, I lose anyway. And since I do 4-tables continuously, it's like lose-lose-lose etc. Freaking stinks. Luckily my ring games are going well, so that's a little help bankroll-wise.

Bleh, I'm going to start afresh tomorrow again. I'm positive others have gone through this and worse, which is why I didn't start up a thread or anything.

BTW did you say you had a 200-300 breakeven stretch, or a losing stretch? Also, with Party, how do you maintain your tournament histories? Do you have to get them to email the histories? What programs do you use to keep track of how you're doing? (I just started this a couple weeks ago, so I have a lot of questions /images/graemlins/cool.gif)

Edit: Also, not all of it is bad luck or downswinging or whatever. I really do think that with the new blinds, I'm pushing a little too early in some cases. Do you think this is right? Like that push with Q5s or something with 10BB (50/100) into a limper. A little too aggressive you think? I should really start posting hands

[chisness]

200-300 was losing but close to breaking even, at first i was gonna use all the emails to track how i was doing

some record them as soon as losing, but i lost track while doing this

they also only send you 50 a day so this was a problem when i did over 50, so now i just go to the account histories and record 1/2/3/NP (no specific 4/5/6/etc.)

im using a spreadsheet given to me by friend, there are some good spreadsheets that do lots of charts, this one just calculates itm, roi, profit, etc. -- im me same as login here if you want it

could be a fault of mine but i cant remember a time ive pushed a garbage hand after limper

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
My biggest downswing was 28 buyins. But that is looking just at end of day figures. I think I was up ~10 buyin towards the end of the last day of the bad streak.

So that would put my record at 38.

Today I reached my all time high, so I think I managed to get through the streak before I got scarred for life. But it is extremely frustrating because for a winning player to drop that many, there has to be absurd amounts of bad luck. Perhaps 20% of the drop to be attributed to some sort of tilt (just a wild guess), be it making poor choices at the table or playing when not in balance because you try to make it all back.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont tilt very easily. most of the downswing is coming from losing to hands that i have dominated, and crucial coinflips. a lot of it is due to people making very loose calls when i push also (which is where the adjustments have come in).

[Karak567]

My worst is a 30 buy-in down swing which incorporated a 25 OOTM streak.

But 37... darn that sucks.

[treeofwisdom7]

i believe what limpin said was true. just wad out your bad run or even better get one of the two plus twoers to read over random hand history. im sure they will find errors and help you be back on track

[intensify1]

i have played over 200 200+15 tourneys on PP and am down about 15 give or take. is this normal or is this any indiacation of my poor skill? i am curious how involved everyone is in relation to the levels. Do you tend to be more involved when the blinds are small? how your desired blind stealing when you get down to 4-5 handed and are middle to lower chip stack? thanks for you input new to this S+g forumn.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Catchatori is some japanese food. I think I'm misspelling it.



[/ QUOTE ]

Its Italian food...geez. Cacciatore...cacciare means "to hunt" so this means "hunter".

too much info?

[maddog2030]

[ QUOTE ]
i have played over 200 200+15 tourneys on PP and am down about 15 give or take. is this normal or is this any indiacation of my poor skill? i am curious how involved everyone is in relation to the levels. Do you tend to be more involved when the blinds are small? how your desired blind stealing when you get down to 4-5 handed and are middle to lower chip stack? thanks for you input new to this S+g forumn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm honestly curious why someone who's playing the $215s would be asking those questions. Did you move up through the limits, are very rich, or win the lottery?

Again, no disrespect intended. My apologies if it's taken that way. But I'm honestly curious.

[Moonsugar]

Usually I just quit playing for a few days. Review my play in PT and SNGPT.

After reading the thing on Chip Reese in Aces & Kings though I want to find ways to not tilt while loosing. He says his play not declining during a downswing is his biggest strength.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]
Usually I just quit playing for a few days. Review my play in PT and SNGPT.

After reading the thing on Chip Reese in Aces & Kings though I want to find ways to not tilt while loosing. He says his play not declining during a downswing is his biggest strength.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a thread on how to keep from tilting??? Would you please provide the link, thanks

[Winwood]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i have played over 200 200+15 tourneys on PP and am down about 15 give or take. is this normal or is this any indiacation of my poor skill? i am curious how involved everyone is in relation to the levels. Do you tend to be more involved when the blinds are small? how your desired blind stealing when you get down to 4-5 handed and are middle to lower chip stack? thanks for you input new to this S+g forumn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm honestly curious why someone who's playing the $215s would be asking those questions. Did you move up through the limits, are very rich, or win the lottery?

Again, no disrespect intended. My apologies if it's taken that way. But I'm honestly curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what I was thinking. Only more polite.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Worst point of the worst downswing I ever had was 90 buy ins. Needless to say I had to drop down in limits during this downswing. Other than that over several thousand SNGs I have only had two other 30+ buy in downswing along with two 20+ OOTM streaks. This is over the course of about 7000 10s,20s and 50s. I'm on quite a heater right now though so I'm bracing myself for the inevitable regression to the mean. These type of things happen sometimes. I looked at many hand histories during that 90 buy in downswing and saw a little bit of mini tilt but other than that I felt like I was playing the same way during the bad streak as I was during the good ones. If you were beating the game before it is probably just variance and things will turn around eventually. It still doesn't hurt to examine your game if you think something might be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had a 90 buyin drop, including 2 20+ OOTM streaks, I'd guess there is little chance you beat the game long term, unless the things that caused those streaks have been shored up. 90 buyin drops just DON'T happen to +EV players in SNG's.

[revots33]

[ QUOTE ]
a lot of it is due to people making very loose calls when i push also (which is where the adjustments have come in).

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been noticing a lot more loose calls when someone (including me) pushes lately as well. It's getting harder to steal the blinds with a push. The problem is that when you get called, even if you're a favorite, you're usually only a small favorite - so it's not that tough to lose your stack a bunch of times in a row if you're luck runs bad.

[spentrent]

Try listening to 80s music while you play. It has temporarily interrupted my 3-week break-even funfest.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
(also, note that this isn't 30 buyins IN A ROW, it's 30 buyins over the span of 3 days where I'm 4-tabling ~8 hrs/day)

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course the obvious solution is to play more tables!

Yesterday I had a 13 buy in downswing and I didn't even notice. I must have played something like 70 SNGs 8 tabling. I even ended the day up about 6.5 buy ins /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Also, I PMed you because your table selection sucks, stop sitting to all the multitabling TAGs lefts and you will be much happier. For those who play the $33s, yesterday I sat directly to the right of catchday3, then I see psyduck sit down at the opposite site of the table.... and then MOVE directly to our left?!? Can't be good for the ROI

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
If you had a 90 buyin drop, including 2 20+ OOTM streaks, I'd guess there is little chance you beat the game long term, unless the things that caused those streaks have been shored up. 90 buyin drops just DON'T happen to +EV players in SNG's.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I thought, but you have no idea how bad I was running. I was basically flipping coins as a 4:1 favorite and anything less than that I might as well load up another game because I wasn't going to win. This happened for a about two weeks and at its worst point I was down 90 buy ins. At that point I had about 20 buy ins left to play the 10s and hit the most ridiculous positive run I have ever had. And now I once again have over 120 buy ins for the 20s. I am still very much in the positive for 7000+ tournaments despite the horrible run so there isn't much doubt in my mind that a player playing +ev poker can run this bad.

edit: as a sidenote this run occurred relatively late in my playing career, after I had already been beating the game for a while.