I want the forums to be split...

[freemoney]

its not a matter of high or low stakes, its that 95% of the posts are awful and take up space. please most of you quit poker.

[smb394]

[ QUOTE ]
its not a matter of high or low stakes, its that 95% of the posts are awful and take up space. please most of you quit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

?

[TheNoodleMan]

when the donks quit poker, where will the free money come from?

[spentrent]

Let's bump this thread until the end of time. Poignant, ironic, colonic, well played nh gc nb neehaaaaaaa.

[freemoney]

i guess i realize this will not generate any discussion and is kind of pointless its just very frustrating, i think the SnG forum while it can be a useful tool, could really be a great place for intelligent players to share ideas i just think the inefficiency of reading this forum is very -EV.

[treeofwisdom7]

i post crap on this site all the time.. why?

A: because it makes it harder for anyold johnny boy to find out how to be a great player

[tminus]

[ QUOTE ]
please most of you quit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

attitudes like this spawn just as many useless posts
chill out man

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
i guess i realize this will not generate any discussion and is kind of pointless its just very frustrating, i think the SnG forum while it can be a useful tool, could really be a great place for intelligent players to share ideas i just think the inefficiency of reading this forum is very -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you feel there is a lack of intelligent poker content, contribute in a poker related fashion. Make more content. Make more threads suck less. Don't just whine about the awfulness of the forum, because it doesn't help in the slightest and just makes you look like a douchebag. Or, stop reading it for a while, and only come back to post when you do have something to say. I'm not saying the last statement in the spirit of "You suck, go away," but rather as an actual piece of advice as to how you could get more out of the forum if you think it's too noisy at the moment.

[maddog2030]

[ QUOTE ]
If you feel there is a lack of intelligent poker content, contribute in a poker related fashion. Make more content. Make more threads suck less.

[/ QUOTE ]

His point is that it's overwhelming. To do this to any substantial degree would consume even more time and energy. I think there is a good reason why there's a seperation of limits in other forums.

And yes, you have a good point. The community needs people to contribute more good content in order to survive, but I think the inefficiency he speaks of deters the flow of good content. Good posts simply get lost very easily, and the sheer number of posts deters better posters from taking the time to read most people's threads. It just simply eats up too much time to make it worthwhile.

[TheTimeIsUp]

Free, you are obviously out voted here.
Long live the pointless disussion!!

[gumpzilla]

Splitting the forum will solve nothing, in my opinion. The problem does not stem from too much low-level content vs. too little high-level content but, in my opinion, interesting questions vs. uninteresting (ROI related, very simple push/fold situations) questions. Splitting the forum doesn't seem likely to make more of the latter appear magically. Good posts from good posters are fairly obvious, generally, and easy to find. It's just that at the moment many of the more respected posters are more interested in making jokes about Yugo and Calcuttas and so on than making poker posts, and so people don't have easy criteria for picking out what they should read for actual poker content. It is a bit of a quandary, but there's no simple solution other than trying to create signal rather than noise.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's bump this thread until the end of time. Poignant, ironic, colonic, well played nh gc nb neehaaaaaaa.

[/ QUOTE ]

BUMP hoooooooray beer!

[bearly]

one 'here, here' for freemoney: typical 2+2 thread lately
1) has anybody ever played w/ this guy?
2)yes
3)that's not possible, you're wrong.
4-20) beavis, buthead, the simpson's, and the reminder of teenage boys soaping their armpits in the showers so they can make 'frog noises'...........h

[maddog2030]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem does not stem from too much low-level content vs. too little high-level content but, in my opinion, interesting questions vs. uninteresting (ROI related, very simple push/fold situations) questions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course asking good questions will generate more "high level" content.

But you don't think the better posters would like it if they didn't have to deal with all the inexperienced posters challenging them all the time? Now, the better posters are nowhere near infallible, but a lot of the times they're making an semi-intelligent point if not a correct one, but have an inexperienced poster replying with complete garbage. And it's understandably frustrating.

I recall Gigabet mentioning he hates posting here because of the inexperienced players replying to his posts, usually with hostility or insinuating that he's an idiot. Paul Phillips has left the WPT/MTT forums because of childish replies (usually stemming, again, from inexperienced posters). Neither ever posted a whole lot, but they were good posters and those were two that came to my mind. I'm sure there are plenty of others who've gone unspoken; you just happen not to see their posts anymore. Did they stop because they lost interest in poker? They thought it was too -EV? Because they were sick of all the crap that's here that they have to weed through?

I'm NOT suggesting that we have a "members only" club for only the elite posters. For one, I'm not invited. Plus this probably would never work and discourages the ongoing building of a community. But I think what would be smart is to direct different types of traffic to different places to manage all this information we have, and encourage the growth of the entire community. Overwhelming amounts of garbage stifles the growth and quality of a community.

To take it to an extreme: Do you think if we made this whole forum one big message board so that everyone would have to wade through thousands of posts to get to one they're interested in, that the quality of posts would decline? Would the best posters still hang around? Why or why not?

In the end, I doubt it would happen anyway. We can't even get a FAQ stickied.

[maddog2030]

Just my luck, treeofwisdom proves my point... (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2699781&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=14&vc=1)

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

But you don't think the better posters would like it if they didn't have to deal with all the inexperienced posters challenging them all the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps, but: a) I'm not sure how much I see this; b) the point of a discussion board is to actually have discussion, and if "good" posters are going to make assertions with no argumentation to support them, people challenging this and asking questions is a good thing, not bad; c) even if we thought it was bad, there is no possible universe that we have access to where such a thing could happen.


[ QUOTE ]
Now, the better posters are nowhere near infallible, but a lot of the times they're making an semi-intelligent point if not a correct one, but have an inexperienced poster replying with complete garbage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Replying with complete garbage is a different beast from questioning and disagreeing. Usually if somebody has proven themself to be an idiot, it's easy enough to point that out and let that be the end of that.

[ QUOTE ]
I recall Gigabet mentioning he hates posting here because of the inexperienced players replying to his posts, usually with hostility or insinuating that he's an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gigabet is obviously a very good poker player, but frankly I don't think he's much as a 2+2 STT poster (I realize I'll be in the minority on this one.) His posts are generally either excessively vague, combative, not that relevant to SNG poker, or some combination of the above. There are exceptions, obviously, but posts like this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=1825403 &Forum=f22&Words=Almost&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main =1825403&Search=true&where=sub&Name=18623&daterang e=1&newerval=&newertype=w&olderval=1&oldertype=m&b odyprev=#Post1825403) one which attained near legendary status could be boiled down to "To play poker well, you need to make good reads and run with them," which is hardly anything revolutionary. It is too bad that people treat him with hostility and like he's an idiot; however, this seems to be the default approach of about 1/3 of the posters in this forum to anybody they disagree with, so it's not like he's being singled out in that regard. (I'd be happy to see this change, too, but it will never happen.)

I guess my point is that I don't think this forum suffers because we don't have enough name-brand supermen of Internet poker posting on a regular basis, but because not enough ordinary people are posting interesting SNG poker questions. How do people get a sense for what's interesting? I lurked in the forum for a couple of months before beginning to post, and had a sense for what kinds of questions were fair game. A FAQ would be great, but it looks like the momentum for that has been lost. I honestly think that if people could leave (sustainable ROI/folding KK PF/etc.) questions alone or answer them quietly and quickly instead of everybody having to jump on and flame the person who asked, a lot of the "garbage" would die a pretty quick death.

[ QUOTE ]
Did they stop because they lost interest in poker? They thought it was too -EV? Because they were sick of all the crap that's here that they have to weed through?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hard to say. Each will have their own reasons.

[ QUOTE ]
But I think what would be smart is to direct different types of traffic to different places to manage all this information we have, and encourage the growth of the entire community. Overwhelming amounts of garbage stifles the growth and quality of a community.

[/ QUOTE ]

While your last point is true, I don't think there's really any good way to organize things so that people put their garbage in the right spot, since I think it's a pretty small percentage of posters who feel they are posting garbage.

[DrPhysic]

and then take it somewhere else.

The rest of us like inanity. Even Yugo style.

Doc

(Either that, or we are able to discern the good posts from the junk which is occaisionally humorous, and usually easily ignored.)

[freemoney]

i mean there are good posters who are bright enough and want to learn who could be successful in the the higher limits who play 10+1's and stuff but i feel like the NL mid-high stakes forum runs much smoother due to the split, i dont know if thats the best solution or something but i know that the endless horrible posts really hurt this forum.

[treeofwisdom7]

we should split this forum just because some a.sses like you and a few other people like to ping newbies. thats my only problem with most of the complaints i get. sorry if im ignorant but you were too. showing no class is a big problem. this forum would be much better if @ssholes wouldnt ping others.

[Karak567]

I think I make good posts, no?

[maddog2030]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps, but: a) I'm not sure how much I see this; b) the point of a discussion board is to actually have discussion, and if "good" posters are going to make assertions with no argumentation to support them, people challenging this and asking questions is a good thing, not bad; c) even if we thought it was bad, there is no possible universe that we have access to where such a thing could happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

A.) I don't know if you would actually see this effect other than good posters not posting. Even then you wouldn't know why they don't post anymore.

B.) I was not suggesting they shouldn't be challenged in their assertions/argumentations. That's just dumb. The good stuff comes out during the argument. This is why I made points about them not being infallible and not having a members only forum. New posters are still allowed to post, but most of the crap will be redirected.

[ QUOTE ]
Replying with complete garbage is a different beast from questioning and disagreeing. Usually if somebody has proven themself to be an idiot, it's easy enough to point that out and let that be the end of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

That doesn't get rid of the frustration, or the waste of space they create and the increase in difficulty to get to the "good stuff".

[ QUOTE ]
Gigabet is obviously a very good poker player, but frankly I don't think he's much as a 2+2 STT poster

[/ QUOTE ]

That's fine, but he clearly stated why he didn't like posting here. And I think we can at least learn that this effect probably isn't only felt by him.

[ QUOTE ]
A FAQ would be great, but it looks like the momentum for that has been lost. I honestly think that if people could leave (sustainable ROI/folding KK PF/etc.) questions alone or answer them quietly and quickly instead of everybody having to jump on and flame the person who asked, a lot of the "garbage" would die a pretty quick death.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that a good amount would die. Perhaps it would be enough to make the forum sustainable enough to produce a significantly higher quality. I have no objections to trying that alternative first. But I think splitting the forum would be a more sure-fire way of having the same effect, especially since you won't have nearly as many low limit players responding to high limit posts.

[ QUOTE ]
But I think what would be smart is to direct different types of traffic to different places to manage all this information we have, and encourage the growth of the entire community. Overwhelming amounts of garbage stifles the growth and quality of a community.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
While your last point is true, I don't think there's really any good way to organize things so that people put their garbage in the right spot, since I think it's a pretty small percentage of posters who feel they are posting garbage.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think splitting it into high and low buyin sngs is an easy way to start. Most of the junk comes from low buyin posters.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

I think splitting it into high and low buyin sngs is an easy way to start. Most of the junk comes from low buyin posters.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's going to stop these posters from posting stuff that you don't like in the high-buyin forum? Absolutely nothing. If you say that they can get flamed and sent back to the other forum, you don't really need a forum split to do that.

Also, I don't think this forum has a problem with people not showing sufficient respect to the established; if anything, it probably goes too far the other way. I really don't see that as being the problem.

[freemoney]

new posters arent posting to piss off or irritate its out of understandable ignorance but they want help and are most likely low limit players, the NL forum works that when a stupid or misplaced post is placed in high stakes a simple response of this is for small stakes is sufficient, here there is no way of doing that so all the crap builds up.

[gumpzilla]

You're right that mid/high NL is a good forum. I'm not convinced that splitting the SNG forum is going to bring all kinds of good posters back out of the woodwork, though. It might have something to do with SNGs being the kindergarten of poker, after all.

[Blarg]

Didn't we just have a thread on this last week? And the week before?

Anyway, poker's popularity has turned 2+2 from a sort of cultish site to one that's much more mainstream, and there's nothing we can really do to change that. Dividing forums up is not really going to eliminate any fools, just channel them more precisely.

Poker's popularity is something we're just stuck with for a while -- which may not be a bad thing for obvious reasons. Yet it probably inevitably screws up the quality of the site by creating more white noise to wade through. There's not an endeavor on earth probably wherein expertise is more common than mediocrity or courtesy esteemed over being a lame smart aleck. Same for poker.

It's just going to be harder to find the wheat mixed in with the chaff. We can sulk about it or rail about it, or quit attending the forums. But the forums themselves won't change. You might as well ask human nature or the planet to change. Not happening.

So the question is how much do we want to whine about it and how easily will we accept being defeated by refusing to do our part to make the community better and more interesting instead of duller or worse. It's a "physician, heal thyself" thing, because what others do is out of our control. And lamenting that is pointless.

[maddog2030]

No, there's no way to get rid off *all* of the crap. People can post whatever they want. And I'm not arguing for a perfect solution - I'm arguing for something better than the way it is now.

But you don't think it would be useful for the majority of the crap to be directed to one place? You honestly don't think most of the crap we see today wouldn't just end up in the small stakes forum, whereas the better posts wouldn't tend to end up in the higher buyin forum?

[maddog2030]

[ QUOTE ]
Dividing forums up is not really going to eliminate any fools, just channel them more precisely.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is all I'm arguing and I don't see how people don't think this would be useful.

[Luminous Mist]

How about Mat just gives certain posters in this forum who post a ton and will keep trash out, moderator privledges. These few can just delete threads (while then pming them a link to a faq and/or a quick answer).

We could even call them the 'we stop baby jesus from crying police' /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Luminous

[Blarg]

I'm not sure I'd trust anyone in this forum with that privilege. There's more skill than perspective here by far, and a fair bit of cliquishness. From what I can see, having a forum moderator choosing which posts should be allowed would be pretty much putting the kids in charge of the candy store and would probably drive down the value of this forum a lot.

[freemoney]

i think it would improve the forum but could never be done.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
i think it would improve the forum but could never be done.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean putting a moderator in charge? It's happening in many other forums, even MTT. I think it could very easily be done well.

[tech]

The job of the user moderators is not to police content in the way you describe. That is the job of people like Citanul. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[bearly]

let's see: if you don't like inanity, leave. how progressive. there are many very good (non poker) forums where the job of the moderator is simply to see that things move in a reasonably productive manner. if things get silly or inane, the mod (who's the owner) just puts on a post telling the troops to stay on topic. not too bad, i think....h

[bearly]

btw....none of you minds dr. physic speaking for all of you in stating that you all like inanity?..........h

[maddog2030]

I think any type of real policing would degrade the forum community immensely. People can moderate each other fairly well. I'm simply suggesting a way to help them do that better.

[CaptSensible]

and THIS post isn't taking up space?

[bearly]

since you appear to agree w/ the contention that all of you like inanity.........then, the forum should be left in it's perfectly self-policing state...............h

[bearly]

so, having a post on the forum about the state of the forum is tacitly agreeing to the status quo? that could be part of the problem..................lack of critical thinking....................h

[freemoney]

i think i can quote the late great mitch hedberg here perfectly,

"I am against picketing, I just dont know how to show it."

[Moonsugar]

Damn, did you make a post worth me taking you off ignore?

Still having b4d var|enc3?

[Mr_J]

Why would you want a forum that supplies just great info? That would turn alot of these poorer players into very good players? Better that the good posts are buried and the rest and that people have to dig to find something +ev.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
Better that the good posts are buried and the rest and that people have to dig to find something +ev.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why stop there?

I think we should come up with an encoding scheme that works as follows. We'll encode all 26 letters of the alphabet in binary, and then transmit the information by appropriate capitalization of letters in the word "holla." For example, "holla" = A, "hollA" = B, "holLa" = C, etc. All punctuation marks would be replaced by "SHIP IT BATCHES" and would have to be determined solely by context. The best part about this plan is that to a casual observer, the forum wouldn't look too different at first, but obviously the ruse wouldn't stand up to closer inspection.

However, even with that great plan, there's too much risk that the dreaded fish might learn something. So we better go ahead and IP ban anybody who has ever posted anything that suggests that they have a positive ROI. If it is possible to deduce their real world location from information that they have posted, crack lobotomy teams should be dispatched post-haste. Also, somebody take a HERF gun to the Older Archives. Too much good stuff there.

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dividing forums up is not really going to eliminate any fools, just channel them more precisely.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is all I'm arguing and I don't see how people don't think this would be useful.

[/ QUOTE ]

this would never work IMO, as wanna be 215 players (such as myself /images/graemlins/grin.gif) would read and post in the higher stakes forum as much as the lower stakes forum.


can we have a top ten "ironic post" list?

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
The best part about this plan is that to a casual observer, the forum wouldn't look too different at first, but obviously the ruse wouldn't stand up to closer inspection.

[/ QUOTE ]

Post of the Year.

I agree with the sentiment, too, btw. There's virtually no risk that this site is going to turn that many fish into sharks. For starters, the majority of people don't WANT to play poker correctly; it's too boring for them.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
95% of the posts are awful and take up space.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty new to this forum, not new to this site, and entirely jumping in in the middle of things on this thread. I've only read the first few and last few posts, so apologies if I'm repeating something.

The signal-noise ratio on sites like this bothers me too. That's why, when I discovered wikis, my brain instantly set about to figuring out how to cram as much highly-repetitive poker info as possible in one community-edited site. The product of all this thinking, such as it is, is at: http://poker.wikicities.com

Now, what I'm curious about is this: All these "low content" or boring threads some people seem agitated about, are they because of people asking the same boring questions? or new and different boring questions?

In other words, are they asking, "How would you handle this situation?" where the situation is new, but not that interesting? Or is it the same situation again and again, and an FAQ-like docuement could save the trouble of writing a reply? I'm trying to figure out if a wiki would cut down 5% of the cruft, 95%, or somewhere in between.

(BTW, point me to the FAQ thread(s) and I'll link them there under "Single table tournament" or something. I know I once read a really excellent FAQ thread on here but I'm not sure if I saved the link.)

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
its not a matter of high or low stakes, its that 95% of the posts are awful and take up space. please most of you quit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are a low quality poster. 95% of your posts are designed to insult people. I'm not sure what makes the majority of your posts godlike.

[astarck]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you want a forum that supplies just great info? That would turn alot of these poorer players into very good players? Better that the good posts are buried and the rest and that people have to dig to find something +ev.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not make it 'members only' forum and to become a member you need to donate a certain $$ amount to 2+2? It would sort of be like paying to use a tool. If you start posting useless babble you get your donation refunded (or just taken) and you get put on probation for a period of time or banned.

If you were to make a 'members only' forum based on quality of posts as was briefly mentioned earlier, it would turn into a who-got-here-first section as all of the older, established posters would already be in, and wouldn't bother reading the noise-filled, non-members section. No one would get promoted.

Donations have been done on other forums with what seems like success. Let's have it here, where a donation gets you access to the members only site, a t-shirt, and entry into the 2+2 tourney. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[freemoney]

because 95% of the posts are horrible that have obvious answers, the open poster puts zero or little thought into the post or hand/situation and just want to be given the answer or be told they were right, i make a concerted effort to answer more thoughtful posts.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
because 95% of the posts are horrible that have obvious answers, the open poster puts zero or little thought into the post or hand/situation and just want to be given the answer or be told they were right, i make a concerted effort to answer more thoughtful posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since I haven't spent too much time in this forum, this is a serious request: Can you give me some examples of, "the open poster puts zero or little thought into the post or hand/situation and just want to be given the answer"? I'm just trying to get a handle on the problem. (Feel free to use PM if you don't want to criticize in public.)

I'll probably figure it out soon enough if I stay here long enough.

[astarck]

[ QUOTE ]
the open poster puts zero or little thought into the post or hand/situation and just want to be given the answer or be told they were right

[/ QUOTE ]

Furthermore, the OP does 0 research pertaining to their question. And if they try to do the research they can't find the information (the Search feature on 2+2 is horrible...I am guilty of this, as we all probably are).

Is the answer to less trash a better search?

[astarck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
because 95% of the posts are horrible that have obvious answers, the open poster puts zero or little thought into the post or hand/situation and just want to be given the answer or be told they were right, i make a concerted effort to answer more thoughtful posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since I haven't spent too much time in this forum, this is a serious request: Can you give me some examples of, "the open poster puts zero or little thought into the post or hand/situation and just want to be given the answer"? I'm just trying to get a handle on the problem.

I'll probably figure it out soon enough if I stay here long enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

It isn't painfully obvious at the lack of effort on the part of the generic OP? Also, this didn't sound like a personal attack on you (sounds like you are responding to a personal attack).

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
(the Search feature on 2+2 is horrible...I am guilty of this, as we all probably are).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an underappreciated point. I want to scream every time someone replies to a newbie FAQ by telling them to go search. I mean, they're right, you should search for an answer before posting. But how can you use a search function that ONLY TAKES ONE TERM!

[ QUOTE ]
Is the answer to less trash a better search?

[/ QUOTE ]

See my comment above about wikis. I don't claim they're THE answer, but they're part of the answer. Wikis do better than message boards for some things -- facts or conventional wisdom that may change, but not all that rapidly. They're not all that great for banter and small talk, or to answer new questions that have never come up before

[astarck]

[ QUOTE ]
See my comment above about wikis. I don't claim they're THE answer, but they're part of the answer.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree Wikis are GREAT sources of information and I enjoy browsing through them. But I honestly don't see how a Wiki pertains to 2+2. They are completely different beasts and I don't think you could ever make 2+2 more Wiki-fied (and if you could, I don't think it would be a good thing.

[ QUOTE ]
Wikis do better than message boards for some things -- facts or conventional wisdom that may change, but not all that rapidly.

[/ QUOTE ]
They do. But again, are completely different from message boards, so I think bringing up the point about Wikis is almost mute.

[ QUOTE ]
They're not all that great for banter and small talk, or to answer new questions that have never come up before.

[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
But I honestly don't see how a Wiki pertains to 2+2. They are completely different beasts and I don't think you could ever make 2+2 more Wiki-fied (and if you could, I don't think it would be a good thing).

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I can see how their applicability would be potentially less on a forum like this one than on the ones where I've spent most of my time, Beginners and B&M.

In Beginners, there's a constant stream of repetitive questions: "Should I play limit or no limit?" "What should I read?" "Are play money games any use?" etc. etc. An FAQ is a good way to deal with that, and wikis are good for storing FAQs. (See http://poker.wikicities.com/wiki/Beginners_FAQ )

For B&M, it's a little different. People are often asking about what games are spread or directions and hotels near Cardroom X. And IMO a wiki is a good place to store that too, because it changes but not as fast as the message board expires, so you don't have N threads a week with the same basics about the Borgata or wherever.

I don't know about wikis' applicability to 2+2 at large. I certainly don't think we would in any way replace 2+2 with a wiki, just offload the most repetitive 30% (or whatever) to free up space for new and interesting threads.

For me the wiki is an experiment in how humans manage information on a given topic.

Oh, and re: your other reply -- I didn't think anything was a personal attack, but I can see how someone would detect that overtone in my post. I just anticipated a reply saying, "How can you not see the stupid threads here?" and the answer is I haven't lurked here very long.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the open poster puts zero or little thought into the post or hand/situation and just want to be given the answer or be told they were right

[/ QUOTE ]

Furthermore, the OP does 0 research pertaining to their question. And if they try to do the research they can't find the information (the Search feature on 2+2 is horrible...I am guilty of this, as we all probably are).

Is the answer to less trash a better search?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. It seems decent search engines on forums are getting harder to find, and this one is no exception. It's terrible.

A better, more reliable search engine would cut the number of repetitive posts in half easily. The blame is misplaced when it gets stuck on posters instead of the search engine.

And paging back through 14 pages of threads doesn't get any easier when so much of the waste is created by chatty threads anyway. Since when did this become the old boys club, where half the threads are people gossiping like little girls at a tea party with their teddy bears? If we want this forum to be better, or want people to do more searches when it's not, it would help if we didn't bombard this forum constantly with OOT threads. I have no idea WTF some folks are trying to do to this perfectly good forum with all that chatty crap. Seriously, there has to be a better social outlet than this particular forum.

[AKQJ10]

Bump; I think this is a useful discussion.

[tech]

[ QUOTE ]
But how can you use a search function that ONLY TAKES ONE TERM!


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what this means. You can use more than one term in a 2+2 search.

[lorinda]

"And paging back through 14 pages of threads doesn't get any easier when so much of the waste is created by chatty threads anyway"

The search isn't THAT bad when you get used to it.

Some people like to use -re: as one of the search terms, I don't like it, but it's a good way to show that there are worse searches out there.

Lori

[pokerstudAA]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
its not a matter of high or low stakes, its that 95% of the posts are awful and take up space. please most of you quit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are a low quality poster. 95% of your posts are designed to insult people. I'm not sure what makes the majority of your posts godlike.

[/ QUOTE ]


What are you talking about? This original post was clearly the high-content, top-quality post these forums need more of. WE should all thank the OP for contributing his valuable opinions and making the forum a better place.

[Degen]

POTY

dumbass

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what this means. You can use more than one term in a 2+2 search.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must not be doing it right, then.

Just off the top of my head, I'm going to search B&M for "Atlantic City" and "NL".

"atlantic city" NL returns

<ul type="square"> Re: I may be moving to Austin Tx. Any good card rooms there?, which has nothing to do with either AC or NL, and no occurrences of either term.

Borgata on a Wednesday morning, which is a good result because it just happens to be a recent topic of discussion

10-20 at Caesar's IN was loose as a goose this evening, which doesn't contain either search term but does contain the word "only", hence "NL"
[/list]
and other junk that doesn't look relevant.

"atlantic city" and NL returns

<ul type="square"> Woman stopped at airport with $46,950 sues DEA, which doesn't contain either of the search terms.
The Austin thread
The youngest legal cardroom...or illegal one, which doesn't contain either of the search terms.[/list]

So I've concluded that multi-term searches just give you a randomly-selected potpourri of recent threads. That's not particularly helpful for sending newbies to. I'm teachable, though -- if you can show me what I'm missing, I'll be happy to have improved my searching skills.

[lorinda]

+atlantic +city +nl -re:

Lori

[lorinda]

copy pasting my above post gives:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> Atlantic city 2-5NL vs 1-2NL Brick and Mortar arod15 06/23/05 06:35 PM
Atlantic City NL cash games Brick and Mortar 98romaine 06/22/05 11:17 PM
Atlantic City NL cashgames? Brick and Mortar topbrelan 06/17/05 08:26 AM
Caesar's Atlantic City Poker Room Opening in July 2005 Brick and Mortar poker327 06/12/05 06:34 PM
Vegas part 3 Brick and Mortar whiskeytown 06/08/05 09:12 AM
1/2 NL On Weekdays in AC Brick and Mortar mikeymer 06/07/05 07:48 AM
</pre><hr />

As the first few returns.

Lori

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
+atlantic +city +nl -re:

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't educate the fish /images/graemlins/wink.gif