Flop the nut flush draw vs EP PFR.....

[mtdoak]

Whats my flop line here?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.33 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero....

My thoughts: With the PFR being in EP...it would be better to check and raise, trying to trap a field for two bets with my nut draw. It also may get me a free card on the turn if I don't hit my flush. Betting for value is fine, but if the PRF raises it, it leaves less people to extract from if I hit my flush...Thoughts?

[aK13]

Check/raise if there's enough people calling his bet.

[Entity]

I'm ok with check-calling this flop. It's only 4-handed, you aren't likely to get free cards, and you aren't likely to free up any outs.

[Stack]

[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts: With the PFR being in EP...it would be better to check and raise, trying to trap a field for two bets with my nut draw. It also may get me a free card on the turn if I don't hit my flush. Betting for value is fine, but if the PRF raises it, it leaves less people to extract from if I hit my flush...Thoughts?


[/ QUOTE ]

You said it all. c/r the flop.

[Bob T.]

The converter says five players, but I only count four. If there are five players, play so you can get the most bets in on the installment plan.

With four, and the raiser in the middle, I think I would bet out, and see what happened from there.

[Stack]

my mistake. nm

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm ok with check-calling this flop. It's only 4-handed, you aren't likely to get free cards, and you aren't likely to free up any outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought there were 5 players (converter broken?). You don't raise for value if pfr bets and everyone calls?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's only 4-handed, so I'm getting 3:1 at best on my money. One of the reasons I'm not fond of check-raising on flops like this is that a 3-bet crushes my overlay, and I'm not getting that great of an overlay to begin.

Rob

[Stack]

I originally thought there were 3 players to act after the pfr, but there are only two.

I would check and call if there is a bet and one or two calls to me (there is a player left to act behind me)

I would check and raise if there is a bet and it's folded to me, to drive out UTG and get it heads up. I lead a non A non K turn if called on the flop, to fold AK AQ AJ KQ 99...

[Stack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm ok with check-calling this flop. It's only 4-handed, you aren't likely to get free cards, and you aren't likely to free up any outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought there were 5 players (converter broken?). You don't raise for value if pfr bets and everyone calls?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's only 4-handed, so I'm getting 3:1 at best on my money. One of the reasons I'm not fond of check-raising on flops like this is that a 3-bet crushes my overlay, and I'm not getting that great of an overlay to begin.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotchya. I immediately edited my post but you're too fast. Thanks Entity.

[jjacky]

(my answer assumes that there are 4 players to the flop)

i think it's very close between a bet and a checkraise.

probably my line would be to bet and 3-bet it against a raise if it is heads up or 4 handed at that point. a 3 bet against 3 opponents is a clear value bet and against one opponent the ace outs are probably good and a 3 bet adds fold equity on the turn.

i slightly prefer it over a c/r because i believe that a c/r is more typical and expected for hero's kind of hand and a bet has a slightly higher likelyhood to get in a favorable situation (being the agressor against 1 or 3 opponents).

[Jaskohouston]

Maybe too technical - but that's not technically the nut flush draw is it? Ks and two more would beat his flush, correct?

Not a lot to worry about, most likely, but I don't think you could assume it the absolute nuts.

[Derek132260]

How is a King-high flush going to beat an ace-high flush?