JJ in a HU situation

[djguy]

I'm new to the forum, this is my first hand post. I think I've got the preflop play down pretty good, but post-flop is eating me alive. I'm trying to improve and currently I'm reading SSHE.

Hand in question:

2/4 Limit HE at PokerRoom.com

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif
UTG calls, EP2 through Btn fold, <font color="red">Hero in SB raises</font>, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif
<font color="red">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls

Turn: J/images/graemlins/club.gif
<font color="red">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls

River: 9/images/graemlins/club.gif
<font color="red">Hero bets</font>, UTG raises, <font color="red">Hero calls</font>

Any thoughts?

As I said, I've come to realize that my post-flop play needs a lot of work. I'm open for any help I can get.

DJ

[Grease]

Seems standard. Terrible river card for you. I would take a stab at the flop and c/f UI barring a really LP read.

Welcome to the forums.

[djguy]

Thanks for the welcome Grease.

What would you have done on the river after UTG raised?

DJ

[Chuckles1248]

[ QUOTE ]
What would you have done on the river after UTG raised?

[/ QUOTE ]

Frown, Call, and Pray

[djguy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What would you have done on the river after UTG raised?

[/ QUOTE ]

Frown, Call, and Pray

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is what I did.

Villain had a J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and took the pot.

Oh well.

DJ

[Bob T.]

Play it the way you did.

The only question is whether or not to be the turn if you don't improve. Given that the board is fairly coordinated, and I am playing against a limper, I will usually bet the turn and hope that he is drawing instead of grimly holding on to an king or queen.

[Chuckles1248]

[ QUOTE ]
Play it the way you did.

The only question is whether or not to be the turn if you don't improve. Given that the board is fairly coordinated, and I am playing against a limper, I will usually bet the turn and hope that he is drawing instead of grimly holding on to an king or queen.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if I like betting the turn UI, it seems like you only get called by draws and hands that beat you. Since we're heads up, draws are less likely and a lot of the hands that we're behind are just going to call. If you bet and get called, what's your plan on a river blank? Bet again and hope again that he doesn't have a K or Q?

[Toonces]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Play it the way you did.

The only question is whether or not to be the turn if you don't improve. Given that the board is fairly coordinated, and I am playing against a limper, I will usually bet the turn and hope that he is drawing instead of grimly holding on to an king or queen.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if I like betting the turn UI, it seems like you only get called by draws and hands that beat you. Since we're heads up, draws are less likely and a lot of the hands that we're behind are just going to call. If you bet and get called, what's your plan on a river blank? Bet again and hope again that he doesn't have a K or Q?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, just because he's getting odds to call on a draw doesn't mean you shouldn't bet the turn. You gain equity when he makes his "good" call on the turn.

As for the river after a blank, I would check/call. If he's on a draw, he won't call your bet, but might bluff. queens and kings are unlikely to fold to your bet. Not many hands that you can beat if they call.

[djguy]

OK, so my bet after the flop was probably, in most situations, not a good one.

My thinking at the time was along the lines that since I only had one opponent and since I raised preflop he had no idea what I had, with the K Q showing up I might be able to bet him out of the pot.

When the 3rd J showed on the turn, even with the board fairly coordinated, I felt that it was a good bet.

The 9 on the river really worried me. In hindsight, I would have checked the river and called.

DJ

[Chuckles1248]

No, the flop bet is standard, no reason to fear a K or Q yet. We're discussing what you would do in the hand if the J hadn't fallen on the turn, so you were still looking at JJ with two overcards.

[Chuckles1248]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Play it the way you did.

The only question is whether or not to be the turn if you don't improve. Given that the board is fairly coordinated, and I am playing against a limper, I will usually bet the turn and hope that he is drawing instead of grimly holding on to an king or queen.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if I like betting the turn UI, it seems like you only get called by draws and hands that beat you. Since we're heads up, draws are less likely and a lot of the hands that we're behind are just going to call. If you bet and get called, what's your plan on a river blank? Bet again and hope again that he doesn't have a K or Q?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, just because he's getting odds to call on a draw doesn't mean you shouldn't bet the turn. You gain equity when he makes his "good" call on the turn.

As for the river after a blank, I would check/call. If he's on a draw, he won't call your bet, but might bluff. queens and kings are unlikely to fold to your bet. Not many hands that you can beat if they call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't saying that you shouldn't bet because draws are getting odds, I just didn't like the situation that puts us in on the river, though I like the check-call induce a bluff line. Obviously we're folding the turn if raised and check-folding if a non-blank falls on the turn, but now that I have a better idea what to do on the river, I like the turn bet UI.

[djguy]

[ QUOTE ]
No, the flop bet is standard, no reason to fear a K or Q yet. We're discussing what you would do in the hand if the J hadn't fallen on the turn, so you were still looking at JJ with two overcards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said, I'm a noob, so I'm trying to keep up.

Then the consensus would be that my bets all the way down the line were good. However, if the J hadn't fallen on the turn, I should have checked/called?

DJ

[Chuckles1248]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, the flop bet is standard, no reason to fear a K or Q yet. We're discussing what you would do in the hand if the J hadn't fallen on the turn, so you were still looking at JJ with two overcards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said, I'm a noob, so I'm trying to keep up.

Then the consensus would be that my bets all the way down the line were good. However, if the J hadn't fallen on the turn, I should have checked/called?

DJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I think I've been convinced that if you don't hit the J on the turn, you should bet and fold to a raise. If he just calls on the turn as well, you should check-call the river if it's a blank, to induce a bluff from bottom pair or a missed draw and keep from being raised by a K or Q. If the river completes the draws, you should probably check-fold, though I'm not positive on that.