Did I throw away 125 chips?

[gildwulf]

How do you play the flop (obviously the turn is a shut down)?

***** Hand History for Game 2246093221 *****
NL Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:13312797 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Wednesday, June 22, 13:15:58 EDT 2005
Table Table 14435 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Bluksta ( $855 )
Seat 2: albundy888 ( $750 )
Seat 3: shutch6114 ( $965 )
Seat 4: rupellig ( $545 )
Seat 5: gubynnej ( $2010 )
Seat 6: chiefhead ( $755 )
Seat 7: babyfacekllr ( $920 )
Seat 8: PRO_LINE ( $605 )
Seat 9: matt6862 ( $595 )
Trny:13312797 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to babyfacekllr [ Ks Ac ]
chiefhead folds.
babyfacekllr calls [30].
PRO_LINE calls [30].
matt6862 calls [30].
Bluksta folds.
albundy888 calls [30].
shutch6114 folds.
rupellig calls [15].
gubynnej checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6s, Ts, 2s ]
rupellig checks.
gubynnej checks.
babyfacekllr bets [125].
PRO_LINE calls [125].
matt6862 calls [125].
albundy888 folds.
rupellig folds.
gubynnej folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jc ]
babyfacekllr checks.
PRO_LINE is all-In [450]
matt6862 is all-In [440]
babyfacekllr folds.

[Karak567]

nvm read my post below

[spentrent]

Since you didn't show any strength preflop, I don't like a semibluff into 4 people.

Hell, even if you did throw in a raise preflop, I still don't think I like a semibluff into 4 people. An A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, top pair, or overpair is likely to call you here at this level, no?

[Shajen]

I raise with AK.

Pretty much anytime it's my turn to act with AK in an unraised pot I raise.

Why did you limp?

edit:Speaking preflop I mean. On the flop, since I raised preflop /images/graemlins/grin.gif I'd fire out a continuation bet, probably around 90 or so. How's the table been playing?

[Karak567]

OHHH you limped pre-flop.

In that case you ahve to check/fold.

But here is a tip:

DON'T EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER LIMP WITH AK WITH EP IN EARLY ROUNDS IN A 20 + 2- THAT IS A REALLY BAD PLAY.

There ya go, problem solved :-).

[11t]

Okay you limp preflop with AK then bet out the flop when you miss it.

What were you thinking?

[Slim Pickens]

If you raise preflop, the continuation bet probably works against anything but an overpair or a total donk playing two overs, which are necessarily worse than yours. With a preflop limp, you have to check/fold the flop.

SlimP

[gildwulf]

OK,

Thanks for all the great input. As for limping pre-flop, this is a leftover from playing the 10+1s w/ Aleomagus' guide. I realize AKo is a huge leak in my game and thanks to Karak and SlimPickens for helping me fix this.

So to recap...if I limp preflop (which is bad) I have to check-fold this. If I raise preflop (which is better) I...still have to fold this? I have a feeling making a big enough continuation bet into a raised pot on this flop would be particularly painful.

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
So to recap...if I limp preflop (which is bad) I have to check-fold this. If I raise preflop (which is better) I...still have to fold this? I have a feeling making a big enough continuation bet into a raised pot on this flop would be particularly painful.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that your flop play depends on how many preflop callers follow you into the pot. It's too easy for your semibluff to fail in a large multiway pot, especially against players who are prone to chasing.

However, Karak's advice about continuing with a half-pot bet had you raised preflop -- even into 4 people -- doesn't sound too bad. It's the kind of bet that appears to welcome a call, which might be appropriate to get 4 folds.

I'm still check-folding even after a preflop raise with 4 callers. I'd throw in a continuation bet against 2 villains, maybe 3 50% of the time, but 4 is too many for me to think it's more than a marginally profitable play.

[Shajen]

blinds 15/30 right?

If so, the continuation bet does not have to be huge...lets say you raise to 90 preflop and get two callers.

That's 270 in the pot + if SB and BB are out another 45, 310. A bet of around 120 (I'd probably go 150) or so as a continuation gets it done I believe. Small enough to allow you to get away from it if reraised, large enough to get others who missed or only got a small piece to drop. Plus, you'd still be in good shape chip stack wise.

HTHAL

[gildwulf]

Yea the more I think about this the more I think it's a check-fold.

[Nottom]

If you are going to limp preflop with AK you don't need to follow it up on the flop.

Check and see how the action develops, you only have the Ks with a few too many people in the pot, I'm not looking to lose many chips here.

[pooh74]

I'm gonna beat a dead horse and then light him on fire.

You need to understand why a continuation bet works. If you do not lay the ground work for one, its as though you are betting into 4 people with 72 offsuit...which is basically what you did here.

If you dont raise PF with the best UNPAIRED hand in hold 'em, and the flop misses you, you no longer have ANY hand....especially multiway.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
DON'T EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER LIMP WITH AK WITH EP IN EARLY ROUNDS IN A 20 + 2- THAT IS A REALLY BAD PLAY

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't neccessarily agree.

[gildwulf]

The dead horse understands.

[Karak567]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
DON'T EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER LIMP WITH AK WITH EP IN EARLY ROUNDS IN A 20 + 2- THAT IS A REALLY BAD PLAY

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't neccessarily agree.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how anything else can be right. What advantage do you have by possibly limping with AK? you take one of the best pre-flop multi-way hands and make the odds of winning with it real crappy.

Then if you do hit and make the best hand, you don't have nearly as many chips.

And if you miss any chance of taking it down on the flop anyways is gone.

You NEED to know where you are with AK. What if you limp and someone behind you raises? How do you know where you are? Obviously if they re-raised you, you could know.

I think limping AK early position is bad, no matter what.


Example: Flop comes AT4. You bet pot, someone pushes, what now?

If you raised pre-flop, this is an easy decision, I think (depending on chip stacks, reads, etc, but let's just assume all those are in check and it is easy)

If you didn't, the villain could have anything. Hell he could have T4s.

[gildwulf]

I would put him on T4 at the 20s. And I would instacall.

I get your points guys...from now on I raise in EP with AKo and AKs.

[gildwulf]

NL Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:13316356 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Wednesday, June 22, 16:11:28 EDT 2005
Table Table 13766 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 8: babyfacekllr ( $800 )
Seat 4: AgentSp ( $800 )
Seat 9: JohnTorrio ( $800 )
Seat 2: FRE54503 ( $800 )
Seat 6: cracktheaces ( $800 )
Seat 1: JimmyTheBlac ( $800 )
Seat 5: jojos1 ( $800 )
Seat 3: urMONEYiTAKE ( $800 )
Seat 10: freeeurop ( $800 )
Seat 7: YenNhiLucky ( $800 )
Trny:13316356 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to babyfacekllr [ Ad Ks ]
YenNhiLucky calls [15].
babyfacekllr raises [60].
JohnTorrio folds.
freeeurop folds.
JimmyTheBlac folds.
FRE54503 folds.
urMONEYiTAKE folds.
AgentSp folds.
jojos1 folds.
cracktheaces folds.
YenNhiLucky calls [45].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2c, 5s, 2h ]
YenNhiLucky checks.
babyfacekllr bets [95].
>You have options at Table 13786 Table!.
>You have options at Table 11107 Table!.
YenNhiLucky folds.
babyfacekllr does not show cards.
babyfacekllr wins 240 chips

[Slim Pickens]

Nice work.