(77) with four to a straight on board

[ElAnimal]

SB is 73/7/.89 after just 40 hands.
Who plays the turn differently? How about the river? Villain has been very passive so the stop'n go is a little alarming with four to a straight on board, though I've only seen him play 40 hands.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls.

River: (6 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

[Grease]

Seeing as how he's LP, I fold the turn.

I got smoked by that last night (calling down a LP with a marginal hand.) If he's going something good enough to bet, I would fold.

[crunchy1]

What were the UTG limpers like? I think I'm raising this PF.

[ihardlyknowher]

[ QUOTE ]
SB is 73/7/.89 after just 40 hands.
Who plays the turn differently? How about the river? Villain has been very passive so the stop'n go is a little alarming with four to a straight on board, though I've only seen him play 40 hands.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls.

River: (6 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I would consider a preflop raise here, but I just learned this play the other day (QTip's pocket 8's on the Button hand - I know you remember that one).

I think the rest is fine. On the turn, you only need to be ahead &gt;25% of the time for a calldown to be right.

[ihardlyknowher]

[ QUOTE ]
Seeing as how he's LP, I fold the turn.

I got smoked by that last night (calling down a LP with a marginal hand.) If he's going something good enough to bet, I would fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read is only over 40 hands, and postflop aggression does not converge that quickly. Even if you get smoked 70% of the time here, the calldown is still +EV.

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the rest is fine. On the turn, you only need to be ahead &gt;25% of the time for a calldown to be right.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's closer ro 33% to calldown.

[ElAnimal]

[ QUOTE ]
What were the UTG limpers like? I think I'm raising this PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah that occured to me, especially after yesterday's 88 post. I'm at work so I don't have access to the hand, but I believe they were TAGs, maybe TANs.

[ihardlyknowher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the rest is fine. On the turn, you only need to be ahead &gt;25% of the time for a calldown to be right.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's closer ro 33% to calldown.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a 6:2 (or 3:1) proposition. This is 25%, right?

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
but I believe they were TAGs, maybe TANs.

[/ QUOTE ]
2 TAGs limping one, two in EP?!? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

I'm raising.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]

It's a 6:2 (or 3:1) proposition. This is 25%, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it's 33%, since you have to win one time for every three times you lose.

[bigalt]

new math. it's so simple, only a kid can do it!

[ihardlyknowher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

It's a 6:2 (or 3:1) proposition. This is 25%, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it's 33%, since you have to win one time for every three times you lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is 4 times total. You need to win 1 in 4 times = 25%.

[pleyya]

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn, you only need to be ahead &gt;25% of the time for a calldown to be right.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually you can be ahead a little less than 25 % since you have 4 outs that should be good.

[ElAnimal]

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[ QUOTE ]
but I believe they were TAGs, maybe TANs.

[/ QUOTE ]
2 TAGs limping one, two in EP?!? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

I'm raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I don't understand something about making that play. The reason I didn't raise was because the limpers were fairly tight and not overly passive. Since you indicated that the type of player had an impact on whether or not you raise in this spot, what type of limpers would keep you from raising?

[Lurkmaster Flex]

I don't see the value in calling this down. If you had an overpair yea, but you have 2nd pair and 3rd pair by the river. Even if he was donking something like a flush draw he is still capable of drawing out with something else, ie that king that hit. 40 hands isn't a "solid" read as people would say but .8 over 40 isn't helping me lean closer to a calldown. HU yea call down, but donking into 2 people, eh.

[ihardlyknowher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On the turn, you only need to be ahead &gt;25% of the time for a calldown to be right.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually you can be ahead a little less than 25 % since you have 4 outs that should be good.

[/ QUOTE ]

So I am not smoking crack on the math? Those guys had me second guessing myself.

[mscags]

I think I'm bailing on the turn here. I'm not sure if I even bet this flop. Usually when there is just one overcard to my PP I don't have a problem betting the flop, but when it is an ace and it is 4-6way action you can almost be assured someone is playing Ace crap, thats just me and could be weak tight /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[crunchy1]

When 2 TAGs limp in EP I'm raising to isolate them and expecting to take the pot down on many, many flops.

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
what type of limpers would keep you from raising?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd be more inclined to limp if they were the loose/passive/calling-station types that are going to showdown with a pair of 8's.

[pleyya]

no the math was right i think, if youre getting 3:1 (6:2) youll break even if you win one and lose three

[ihardlyknowher]

[ QUOTE ]
but when it is an ace and it is 4-6way action you can almost be assured someone is playing Ace crap

[/ QUOTE ]

Even when it is checked to you on the Button?

[o0mr_bill0o]

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[ QUOTE ]
but when it is an ace and it is 4-6way action you can almost be assured someone is playing Ace crap

[/ QUOTE ]

Even when it is checked to you on the Button?

[/ QUOTE ]

i see so many loose passives checking aces on the flop. they are loose passive afterall.

also, i'm really torn on this one. on the one hand, i think that 33% is a pretty high number here, and it's unlikely your hand is good that much. also you have to consider the chance that your hand might be good now, but bad after the river (kind of hard to quantify, but it's still out there). however, there is also the 4 sixes out there that will almost certainly give you the best hand, and allow you to raise and get at least one extra bet from the guy. i think i call down in this situation, but fold if the board is something like A245.