Good blind defense?

[Shajen]

1 table SNG, 10+1, blinds 75/150, down to 6 players. A few hands earlier I knocked out two players I put all in preflop with AK. Their QQ and KK were no match for the Ace that came on the river.

Seat 2: Hero (5870 in chips)
Seat 4: Fish1 (1245 in chips)
Seat 5: Fish2 (2670 in chips)
Seat 6: Fish3 (2055 in chips)
Seat 7: Fish4 (580 in chips)
Seat 9: Fish5 (1080 in chips)
Fish5: posts small blind 75
Hero: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif]
Fish1: folds
Fish2: raises 300 to 450
Fish3: folds
Fish4: folds
Fish5: folds
Hero: calls 300
*** FLOP *** [J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif]
Hero: checks
Fish2: bets 500
Hero: calls 500
*** TURN *** [J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif] [A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif]
Hero: checks
Fish2: bets 1000
Hero: calls 1000
*** RIVER *** [J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif] [3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif]
Hero: checks
Fish2 requests time.
Fish2: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Hero: shows [5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif] (a straight, Deuce to Six)
Fish2: shows [A/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif] (a pair of Aces)
Hero collected 3975 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2975 | Rake 0
Board [J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif]
Seat 2: Hero (big blind) showed [5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif] and won (3975) with a straight, Deuce to Six
Seat 4: Fish1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Fish2 showed [A/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 6: Fish3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Fish4 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Fish5 (small blind) folded before Flop

The fish2 had played pretty solid poker, only played about 10% of the hands so far. Had shown down only winners. I figured he was trying to steal the blinds. On the river, I checked to him figuring he'd bet and I could re-raise all in. I guess he knew he was beat. He tilted pretty badly after this hand.

[Myst]

The only fish I see is the one calling with 65 offsuit...

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
The only fish I see is the one calling with 65 offsuit...

[/ QUOTE ]

So you disagree with my play? What would you do differently?

[Sabrazack]

Fold preflop is the only sane option here, failing that fold the flop, failing that fold the turn. The only good thing i see is not folding the river.

[Myst]

I would folded it. Yes, it is important to defend the blinds, but two things need to happen. Either 1, you feel you can outplay your opponent postflop, so cards dont really matter and you can use your position to your advantage or 2) you have a real hand.

Judging by the way you played that hand, I dont think criterion 1 applies. Checking and calling is rarely a correct strategy esp in NL. Did you have a plan in place throughout the hand? Why didnt you make a value bet on the rver when you made your hand?

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop is the only sane option here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had plenty of chips, I figured this was a good place to make a stand against blind stealers.

The rest of the table didn't try to steal from me again, after this hand.

+EV

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
Why didnt you make a value bet on the rver when you made your hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
On the river, I checked to him figuring he'd bet and I could re-raise all in. I guess he knew he was beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

[introv]

A solid player raises in EP. You have absolute trash and will be out of position throughout the hand. I don't like the pf call at all.

Having called, I would check-fold the flop. You don't have the odds to draw at a gutshot straight and you may end up loosing the hand anyway if the 3 of hearts lands. To bet this as a bluff isn't too bad if you think the guy will lay down if he doesnt hit but to check-call is pretty bad.

Having called the flop I would check-fold the turn. Now an ace is on board so even if your 5 and 6 were outs before it is extremely unlikely they still are, especially when he fires another 1000 at the pot.

On the river you have to bet to extract some sort of value from your extreme suckout. Villain only has 1000 chips left and its possible he will call a nice bet (maybe even all-in) with any peice of the board, especially a good ace. But with 4 to a straight on board and 3 to a flush, it's fairly unlikely any even slightly decent player will bet this river for you.

If you hadn't hit your 2/3 outer on the river you'd have thrown away nearly 2000 chips (1/3rd of your stack) with 56o. Not good!

I think you may have mislabelled the fish in your post /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[NYCNative]

I hate just about everything about this hand. Defending one's blind with a 6 high is silly 90% of the time. This was no different. Congratulations, you sucked out on a hand that was a 63.7% favorite PF, a 75.9% after the flop and a 93.2% favorite going to the river. That's not how you defend your blinds, it's how you lose. Although villain should have pushed that flop or turn so at least he would have been right to call you a fish for calling (and you would have, apparently).

[Shajen]

I tried, but I just can't do it. I can't see how this dumbass called my raise preflop, my bet on the flop, my turn bet and then checked the river.

I just don't get it. I knew on the river when the [censored] 3 peeled off that the little prick was playing small cards. I just knew it. Guess I saved myself a bet there at the end. He put me on tilt so bad. I'm still mad about the hand.

When I asked him what the [censored] he was doing, he said he was sorry, but "he had chips to burn."


GAH.

(Thanks for being kind guys, I posted it this way to see what type of response this would get, thought perhaps there was a small chance I was missing something here. I analyzed this hand the whole way to work this morning. I still don't understand this assmunch's play. /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Does anyone see anything I should have done differently?

[NYCNative]

Push the flop or turn would have been different. Either one works for me. You have a great draw with two overs and a nut flush draw on the flop and you pick up TPTK on the turn. What are you waiting for?

[Shajen]

Based on my read of the player, I figured he'd fold to an all in, but would continue to call down if I just bet. I bet the most I figured I could and keep him in the hand. I put him on a worse flush draw than what I had. There was also a slight chance this guy was slow playing trips. I Didn't want to push him out of the pot completely, but of course it back fired. I hated seeing that 3.

[Phill S]

[ QUOTE ]
Seat 2: Fish6 (5870 in chips)
Seat 4: Fish1 (1245 in chips)
Seat 5: Fish2 (2670 in chips)
Seat 6: Fish3 (2055 in chips)
Seat 7: Fish4 (580 in chips)
Seat 9: Fish5 (1080 in chips)
Fish5: posts small blind 75
Hero: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif]
Fish1: folds
Fish2: raises 300 to 450
Fish3: folds
Fish4: folds
Fish5: folds
Fish6: calls 300
*** FLOP *** [J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif]
Fish6: checks
Fish2: bets 500
Fish6: calls 500
*** TURN *** [J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif] [A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif]
Fish6: checks
Fish2: bets 1000
Fish6: calls 1000
*** RIVER *** [J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif] [3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif]
Fish6: checks
Fish2 requests time.
Fish2: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Fish6: shows [5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif] (a straight, Deuce to Six)
Fish2: shows [A/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif] (a pair of Aces)
Fish6 collected 3975 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2975 | Rake 0
Board [J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif]
Seat 2: Fish6 (big blind) showed [5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif] and won (3975) with a straight, Deuce to Six
Seat 4: Fish1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Fish2 showed [A/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 6: Fish3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Fish4 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Fish5 (small blind) folded before Flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Just editing like i see it.

Phill

[introv]

lol, got to admit I thought it odd that someone with as many posts as you wouldn't know how bad this play is. But you never know whats a joke and what's not around here. Very funny parody of his thinking tho, I like.

Don't try and understand the reasoning for his play (whatever his reasoning, it is wrong), be grateful that you managed to get him to call off so many chips drawing to a 2 outer and realise that people doing stupid things like that are what make these games profitable for players such as yourself.

I'd have played it the same way.

[Phill S]

[ QUOTE ]
Based on my read of the player, I figured he'd fold to an all in, but would continue to call down if I just bet. I bet the most I figured I could and keep him in the hand. I put him on a worse flush draw than what I had. There was also a slight chance this guy was slow playing trips. I Didn't want to push him out of the pot completely, but of course it back fired. I hated seeing that 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, i hate it when i play an inside straight draw, hit it and then dont bet it for value.

Phill

[zambonidrivr]

fold preflop

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Based on my read of the player, I figured he'd fold to an all in, but would continue to call down if I just bet. I bet the most I figured I could and keep him in the hand. I put him on a worse flush draw than what I had. There was also a slight chance this guy was slow playing trips. I Didn't want to push him out of the pot completely, but of course it back fired. I hated seeing that 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, i hate it when i play an inside straight draw, hit it and then dont bet it for value.

Phill

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop is the only sane option here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had plenty of chips, I figured this was a good place to make a stand against blind stealers.

The rest of the table didn't try to steal from me again, after this hand.

+EV

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you often try to steal blinds from EP? This is absolutely terrible. Fold everything until you hit your 4-out miracle on the river, and then bet that. He'll never suspect a hand like 65 because only a fool would play it that way.

I'm baaaaaack.

*Edit* Just read further down. I stand my by comments. If you're going to label yourself as hero in this play, I am going to criticize it and call you a nimrod.

[Sabrazack]

Best disguised bad beat post EVER!

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
Best disguised bad beat post EVER!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I gotta bring something new to the forum.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The play was so bad I thought maybe dude was playing on a different level than I was. Needed a sanity check.

[kwc98]

This does not seem like good blind defense, it seems more like blind luck.