cold calling 2 more after limping

[Scott_Baio]

I'm fairly consistant with my pre flop play and wouldn't even think to ask this if someone hadn't been watching me play. I make this fold everytime, but he said it's terrible. What does everyone else do here?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.16 BB

[Brunger]

Raise yourself pre-flop and given you didn't you can still call because you can still flop a set in what will certainly be an action pot and are getting an immediate 5-1 which is enough with implied odds.

[chux52]

id call it but i dont know if it is right to do either

[Grease]

I would raise 99 PF here.

I would call here getting 5-1 since UTG did. I would be wary of calling if I suspected CO of capping (LAG).

[ArturiusX]

I'd raise preflop, but its debatable.

I'd make the call, implied odds are good because the pot will be big and people will be tied to it with TPTK. Easy to play post flop; fold if you miss, raise if you hit.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Easy to play post flop; fold if you miss, raise if you hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with making the call but I disagree with this. You will flop an overpair a decent chunk of the time and often be faced with a tough decision or two.

[shant]

This post should have been titled "cold calling more after raising."

[damaniac]

I usually raise this preflop, but that's been discussed already.

Generally, there aren't many times you should fold a pocket pair once you've put money into the pot. This is no exception. 5:1, possibly somewhat better if MP2 calls 2 more (he usually will) somewhat worse if it gets capped (either 14:3 or 17:3). That's more than enough to spike your set, given that there are at least two players that like their hands, plus the big pot will encourage others to chase with bottom pair or overcards, something that is great when you spike your set.

[Yeknom58]

This is by no means a must raise in EP. This is more of a depends type of limp/raise situation.

I'd probably call without a read but if I had more info on the BB and the CO I might fold.

[apples]

I fold too. You're facing an overpair and you need 8:1 to jump in.

[Grease]

Where did this information come from? I 3-bet AKo and AKs all the time, and sometimes AQs. The players might be LAGGY and be 3-betting 88.

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd raise preflop, but its debatable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand why everyone thinks raising pre flop is debatable. It's -EV.

[JTG51]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd raise preflop, but its debatable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand why everyone thinks raising pre flop is debatable. It's -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you mean to type +EV? Limping might be better than raising, but raising is definitely not -EV.

[JTG51]

This is a really easy call. You might have the best hand right now, and if you don't you'll make about a million bets post flop when you hit a set.

[Jeff W]

I meant to say limping is -EV.

[JTG51]

[ QUOTE ]
I meant to say limping is -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's definitely wrong too. Anyone that can't make a profit by limping with 99 in that spot probably can't beat the game.

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I meant to say limping is -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's definitely wrong too.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it's not. Limping is -EV compared to raising. Anytime you make a suboptimal decision, you make a -EV decision.

[JTG51]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I meant to say limping is -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's definitely wrong too.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it's not. Limping is -EV compared to raising. Anytime you make a suboptimal decision, you make a -EV decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

Limping might be -EV compared to raising, but that doesn't make the statement "Limping is -EV" true. Limping and raising are definitely both +EV, regardless of which is better.

Saying "limping is -EV" means you'll have less money after the hand than before if you limp.

[JTG51]

Here's a simple example in case I wasn't convincing enough.

You're heads up and there's 10 big bets in the pot before the river action. You have a royal flush and your opponent bets into you. Calling is obviously suboptimal, but the EV is +11 big bets.

[Padawan Learner]

apples:

[ QUOTE ]
You're facing an overpair and you need 8:1 to jump in.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you don't. Your implied odds are through the roof (not to mention your hand might still be best). 10:2 is easily enough to call here.

[jskills]

Hard to answer because I'm pretty sure I'm coming in for a raise here vs. one UTG limper.

But I'd find myself calling in your spot to at least see the flop.