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DarkForceRising
06-22-2005, 01:18 AM
The usual line is to ask God for a day of sobriety, abstinence from gambling, gluttony ect...

If said diety delivers, which one is it? Yahweh, Jesus, mohammed- who? And, in the cases where he or she fails to come through, why? Did the petitioner not ask sincerely enough? Or did praying to the wrong "god" finally catch up with them?

The typical response from those involved with such organizations is, "Who cares? As long as it works...".

These programs have helped many, no doubt. However, I would submit that this is an even more insidious form of denial manifesting itself in intellectual dishonesty.

Quaalude
06-22-2005, 02:24 AM
This isn't really a proper response to your post, and I'm not involved in any 12 step programs, but I read a lot of odd crap. There's a book called "Alcoholics Anonymous: Cult or Cure? (http://www.morerevealed.com/books/coc/)" by Chaz Bufe that is very interesting reading. From the preface:

"Some defenders of AA will undoubtedly complain that virtually all of the new information and new analysis presented here reflects badly on AA, and is, in fact, “AA bashing.” All that I can say in reply is that, as in the first edition of this book, I’ve done my best to honestly present and evaluate the available evidence. As well, it’s not terribly surprising that the bulk of the new evidence is unfavorable to AA. AA has a well-oiled propaganda machine that loudly trumpets every finding and assertion favorable to AA, 12-step treatment, and the disease concept of alcoholism. This material is readily available, to say the least. In contrast, evidence that reflects badly on AA is often hidden away in obscure professional journals and government reports. Thus, by digging deeper this time, I found much new negative evidence and little new positive evidence regarding AA."

-Travas