Nigel
06-22-2005, 12:15 AM
Ok, this might be a little too vague for some people's taste but I don't feel like posting specific hands so hopefully I can just capture the essence of the problem.
Let's say you have a mid/high pair 99/TT/JJ something of that nature, and a multiway hand (with at least one other pre-flop raiser in it) has gone down (pre-flop and flop) in such a way that you are fairly certain you are behind to a bigger pair. Now, for one reason or another you've missed your set on the turn but have been dragged along because maybe you pick up a straight draw or a flush draw or maybe you want to see how the turn action goes down and decide what to do on the river. On the river, you've miss all 'outs', but you are either still overcarded, or there is no Q, K, A on the board. The guy representing the big hand bets and everyone now folds leaving just you, closing the action, facing a large pot, lets say 14+BB's, but you just "know" you are beat as you have enough of a read to think he probably is sane enough to not fire A hi into 3-4 opponents on the river.
Do these just need to be auto-calls and that's the way life goes in limit, or at "expert" level do these need to start becoming laydowns? Lawrence's post on folding KK comes to mind, although that's a little extreme, but the same idea.
Anyway, I usually am good at knowing when I'm beat in these situations and getting away from these hands early, but when I don't get a good excuse to get out early and end up on the river heads up for that last bet, I hate to let it go.
This kind of situation has come up too often in the past day or two and it's nagging me. Maybe these are so marginal that it doesn't affect things too much one way or the other. I'd just like to hear others thoughts on it.
Big leak, small leak, or no leak?
Nigel
Let's say you have a mid/high pair 99/TT/JJ something of that nature, and a multiway hand (with at least one other pre-flop raiser in it) has gone down (pre-flop and flop) in such a way that you are fairly certain you are behind to a bigger pair. Now, for one reason or another you've missed your set on the turn but have been dragged along because maybe you pick up a straight draw or a flush draw or maybe you want to see how the turn action goes down and decide what to do on the river. On the river, you've miss all 'outs', but you are either still overcarded, or there is no Q, K, A on the board. The guy representing the big hand bets and everyone now folds leaving just you, closing the action, facing a large pot, lets say 14+BB's, but you just "know" you are beat as you have enough of a read to think he probably is sane enough to not fire A hi into 3-4 opponents on the river.
Do these just need to be auto-calls and that's the way life goes in limit, or at "expert" level do these need to start becoming laydowns? Lawrence's post on folding KK comes to mind, although that's a little extreme, but the same idea.
Anyway, I usually am good at knowing when I'm beat in these situations and getting away from these hands early, but when I don't get a good excuse to get out early and end up on the river heads up for that last bet, I hate to let it go.
This kind of situation has come up too often in the past day or two and it's nagging me. Maybe these are so marginal that it doesn't affect things too much one way or the other. I'd just like to hear others thoughts on it.
Big leak, small leak, or no leak?
Nigel