PFR TT For or Against?

[JacksonTens]

Recently I had a large argument with my friend over whether TT should be raised Pre-flop on a loose table. The two arguments are clear.

The case for is that you are raising to get the lone A's and K's out and also for positive expectation.

The case against is that loose players will often cold call with an A,K,Q and when one of them hits the flop your pair is dead. So you should instead play TT like a Middle PP, and get to the flop for the minimum.

JT /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[paperboyNC]

If you consider pot equity, your TT has a greater pot equity than most hands.

You therefore maximize your profit by pushing this pot equity edge when it's the highest (pre-flop).

I think raising gets you in trouble when you get 3-bet and isolated by a bigger pair (which seems to happen frequently).

[BlindingLaser]

One of the other really important reasons to raise TT is that when you make a set, the pot will be large, and cause your opponents to call down with several hands that are drawing practically dead on the flop, including any pair on the board. For instance, on a flop of KT2r, somebody with A2 and a backdoor flushdraw would be correct to take a card off, and could catch two pair or trips and pay you for multiple big bets on the turn. In a smaller pot, he might fold on the flop. You have a large equity edge, and you compound your opponents preflop errors by giving them odds to draw thin when you flop a set or overpair.

[chief444]

The case for is simply value. The case against is certainly not because Ax-Qx will call. You want them to call.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
The case for is simply value. The case against is certainly not because Ax-Qx will call. You want them to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really hope this ends this debate.

[Paxosmotic]

It's basically an argument over whether or not you should push large edges when you have them. I don't think you're going to get any votes against raising here. You have a very powerful hand and hands such as AQo and QJs calling do so to their detriment.

[ihardlyknowher]

[ QUOTE ]
You have a very powerful hand and hands such as AQo and QJs calling do so to their detriment.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there are enough callers, these hands could have an equity edge as well, no?

[SmileyEH]

There is really no need for debate. If some toughish players limp and you are in the blinds then a case can be made for keeping the pot small, but otherwise raise it up for value.

-SmileyEH

[Paxosmotic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have a very powerful hand and hands such as AQo and QJs calling do so to their detriment.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there are enough callers, these hands could have an equity edge as well, no?

[/ QUOTE ]
True, but they usually pull their equity from a third person. There's a thorough example of this in SSHE I believe. Essentially TT and QJs are both profiting from the idiot playing A4o while TT is profiting from QJs. QJs might pull enough from A4o to become profitable but it's still giving up quite a bit to TT. So to speak.

[imported_CaseClosed326]

Who said never? /images/graemlins/mad.gif Tisk tisk tisk

[shant]

I'm so happy to see the results of this poll.

[Rev. Good Will]

[ QUOTE ]
The case for is that you are raising to get the lone A's and K's out and also for positive expectation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who said this? You want that to happen.

[JacksonTens]

Well thats my stance too. Its a value raise. Well that settles it then. Good work team.

JT /images/graemlins/spade.gif