What is scientology exactly?

[TStoneMBD]

Lately this word has been popping up alot on these forums and I decided that I no longer wanted to be out of the know, so I did a little research on the subject through google and came across www.whatisscientology.org. (http://www.whatisscientology.org.)

There was a briefing about the religion at the site, yet I still have no idea what its principles are. It seems to be based on mathematical principles instead of faith. That is all I understand.

Apparently there was a book published in 1992 that discusses exactly what scientology is all about and has become very popular. It is apparently the main cause for the spread in this religion.

I am now interested in possibly buying this book and figuring out what this whole thing is about, but thought it would be more interesting to hear the opinions on the subject of the posters here first.

So what is scientology and what is your take on it?

[Los Feliz Slim]

I was also curious about this, as I live very near the Scientology center in LA and know/have known several, so I did a little research. Best as I can figure out, I think Scientology is as much self-help as it is about religion. The idea is to rid yourself of toxic things, mental and physical, and reach your ultimate potential.

Bad sign #1 is that the process is enormously arduous and expensive. Bad sign #2 is that Scientologists are encouraged to recruit their friends and if they fail, stop being friends with them.

Also, there's something about an evil alien overlord or something that I really don't get. I think the idea is that we're all descendants of a race of people that was brutally enslaved, and this is part of the emotional baggage we need to rid ourselves of.

[kerssens]

All I've really heard is L. Ron Hubbard wasn't making enough money as a writer so he decided to get over on a bunch of celebrities.

[TStoneMBD]

So it's basically a money hungry cult?

[jediael]

It's definately -EV

[Los Feliz Slim]

[ QUOTE ]
So it's basically a money hungry cult?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, just like every other organized religion.

Here's where I say that what other people do on their own time doesn't bother me a bit. I find it absolutely fascinating, however.

[wmspringer]

I've read the point of it was to make sure that L. Ron Hubbard was making at least a million dollars a week.

[Richie Rich]

One biased website says this. (http://www.xenu.net/roland-intro.html)

[bernie]

There was a TIME magazine article on it long ago that went into it quite a bit. If you can find it, it might be worth a read.

b

[TStoneMBD]

WOW THAT IS SOME WEIRD STUFF.

i read almost the entire thing including all sublinks. that amazes me that people get caught up in something so ridiculous if that information is actual truth.

how is it possible that these celebrities are getting so caught up in this though? according to the information at the presented website, scientology eventually tells its followers that "ethics", or devotion to the church are essential to happiness. as such, the church forces its followers to volunteer labor of like 100 hours a week in some remote location.

why havent any famous people reportedly gone out and voluntarily worked hours upon hours for the scientology church? is it that the church doesnt want this information to reach the public and therefore doesnt tell followers related to the media about ethics and their requirement to fulfill their labor duties?

[CallMeIshmael]

I once heard that L Ron was bet that he couldnt found a successful religion. And this was the origins of the religion.

Does anyone know if this is true?

[SpearsBritney]

Anything that makes you behave like Tom Cruise of late, I want no part of.

[PairTheBoard]

I think the basics of Scientology involve things they call "Ingrams" that are like mental-emotional Buttons resulting from past experiences and which continue getting pushed making us react in unhealthy ways. They have techniques for hammering down these Buttons until they are flattened out and no longer a problem.

But part of the deal with Scientology is that you are sworn to secrecy and agree not to divulge to the general public what you learn there. The more advanced teachings are only revealed to you as you progress up the Scientology scale, each step costing more and more money. I believe the top echelon of advanced secrets can run you several hundreds of thousands of dollars. Tremendous pressure is put on at each step to pay the money for the next step. They have some very powerful salespeople and will hit you with all they've got to get you to do what they want.

I shelled out $50 bucks years ago to see what it was all about. After some initial fun and games it was determined that I needed the $1000 Course in Life Repair. These were 1972 dollars. Who knows? Maybe I'd be a movie star by now if I'd stayed with them.

PairTheBoard

[eric5148]

So what's the difference between this and Kabalah?


I seriously need to get in on the religion business.

[Los Feliz Slim]

If you're into learning about freaky religious origins and practices, check out Mormonism. A lot of that stuff makes Scientology sound perfectly reasonable.

[BluffTHIS!]

I don't think Mormonism can top Scientology's "beliefs" about Xenu the evil galactic ruler who killed all these beings 75 million years ago and whose spirits now need to be exorcised from all of us "thetans".

[kerssens]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think Mormonism can top Scientology's "beliefs" about Xenu the evil galactic ruler who killed all these beings 75 million years ago and whose spirits now need to be exorcised from all of us "thetans".

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't there something about stacking up the corpses of the people that were sacrificed to ease the overpopulation in front of a volcano?

[Los Feliz Slim]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think Mormonism can top Scientology's "beliefs" about Xenu the evil galactic ruler who killed all these beings 75 million years ago and whose spirits now need to be exorcised from all of us "thetans".

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, those sound like the kind of religious beliefs that a science fiction writer might come up with.

[jason1990]

I think one could get the gist of the whole engram thing just by reading Dianetics. I was once solicited to "work" for the Scientologists. I was led to believe it would be a paying position. But since I never took them up on it, I don't know if it would be them paying me or me paying them.

I believe I was supposed to be an "auditor." I might be misremembering the term, but the idea is that people with engrams would come in and I would "audit" their psyche to determine the nature of their engram problems. I was shown a tool that I would be using. It was like a small plank with two metal rods sticking vertically out of it. The person being audited would grasp the rods and then a meter would show some readings. Perhaps I would have been asking them questions while they held the rods. It seemed a little like palm reading or some other BS. Why they thought I was "qualified" for this, I don't know. I guess because I told them I'd read Dianetics.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
So what's the difference between this and Kabalah?

[/ QUOTE ]

Kabbalah started out as a weird sect of Judaism that believed that if you could find the true name of God, some amazing [censored] would happen. So a lot of it was devoted to strange numerological work; there was some kind of scheme where there were different numbers associated with each of the 10 Sefirot, blah blah blah. It's amazing to me that something this fundamentally weird and dorky has become the focus of a new religious trend.

There was a hilarious clip from a special on Kabbalah that I saw the other day, where a bunch of people were jumping up and down, making motions with their hands that looked like the good old "raising the roof," while a video montage of wreckage played in the background, the word "CHERNOBYL" occasionally popping up for brief snippets. I was disappointed to discover that they were merely trying to send good vibes to Chernobyl instead of cheering nuclear disaster, which would have been a much more interesting thing for a religion to be doing.

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
So what is scientology and what is your take on it?

[/ QUOTE ]


Send me $5,000 and I'll let you in on all the secret stuff.

-Zeno

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
It's amazing to me that something this fundamentally weird and dorky has become the focus of a new religious trend.


[/ QUOTE ]

There are vast amounts of credulous people swarming about the earth. So it is not amazing at all, in my opinion, that Scientology exists or that people fall for this kind of hooey. Just examine the fundamental beliefs and principle creeds of many well-established religions and you run up against this same type of buffoonery. It just becomes more easily to swallow the more it becomes ritualized and shrouded in tradition and history and with the construction of a hierarchy and the building up of a theology. It’s a remarkably simple formula that has worked for thousands of years and bamboozled billions. Add to this explanation the fact that, if you are ‘religious’, it is probably the same religion as your parents and much else becomes exposed.

It is well within the collective power of the posters on this board to start a Religion. In fact, it would be an interesting experiment.

-Zeno

[gumpzilla]

1) I think you missed that I was talking about Kabbalah, not Scientology.

2) I'm not doubting the credulity of Joe Q. Public so much as remarking on the curiosity that the latest trendy religion is rooted in a practice that, being obsessed with numbers and words, seems inherently nerdy and thus uncool. The message being put out by the Kabbalah center these days (healing water? really?) seems pretty far afield from that, it's true. Maybe they just latched on to the Kabbalah to stake out some kind of established religious turf that nobody is going to fight them for in order to have a sound, distinctive platform to push their generic New Ageyness.

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
1) I think you missed that I was talking about Kabbalah, not Scientology.


[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. I did mess up on that. Still, what I said holds true in my opinion, the exact nonsense being perpetrated is almost beside the point. We probably agree on that score.

You make a good point about 'popularity' and trends. They have a collective way of helping to self-promote certain 'weird' beliefs, making them even more acceptable to the credulous, at least for a period of time. The current Kabbalah rush is a good case which you pointed out well. Ten years from now will it still be in fashion? Who Knows.

-Zeno

[Cyrus]

of Katie Holmes.

<font color="white"> . </font>

[Chairman Wood]

[ QUOTE ]
It is well within the collective power of the posters on this board to start a Religion. In fact, it would be an interesting experiment.


[/ QUOTE ]
Let's do this!

[TGoldman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is well within the collective power of the posters on this board to start a Religion. In fact, it would be an interesting experiment.


[/ QUOTE ]
Let's do this!

[/ QUOTE ]
2+2's religion is the worship of +EV

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]

So what is scientology and what is your take on it?

[/ QUOTE ]
Scientology is organized crime masquerading as religion.

[PairTheBoard]

I don't remember if they gave me an auditing session or if they just showed me the equipment. But I do remember the equipment consisted of two cans that you held on to that were hooked up to a meter. I discovered that if you squeezed the cans the meter would jump. So I guess under auditing, if a question or answer makes you uncomfortable enough to tighten your grip the auditor can see the meter and tell he's found an engram.

I think it's somewhat of a pyramid type deal. People are pressured to buy into the next level and one of the ways they make money for the buy in is to sell the lower levels to friends and in house prospects. I suspect if you took the auditor job you would become a hot in house prospect and would be enduring a lot of high pressure sales techniques applied on you.

PairTheBoard

[Phat Mack]

[ QUOTE ]

It is well within the collective power of the posters on this board to start a Religion. In fact, it would be an interesting experiment.

-Zeno

[/ QUOTE ]

I nominate Satchel Page for Prophet.

[ QUOTE ]
Avoid fried meats which angry up the blood.

If your stomach disputes you, lie down and pacify it with cool thoughts.

Keep the juices flowing by jangling around gently as you move.

Go very light on the vices, such as carrying on in society— the social ramble ain't restful.

Avoid running at all times.

Don't look back— something might be gaining on you.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
I was also curious about this, as I live very near the Scientology center in LA

[/ QUOTE ]
I've been there once, about 18 months ago. Given the circumstances they seemed pretty friendly.
http://theclandestino.org/Images/Santacon%202003/images/SantaconLA03_jpg.jpg

[jason1990]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't remember if they gave me an auditing session or if they just showed me the equipment. But I do remember the equipment consisted of two cans that you held on to that were hooked up to a meter. I discovered that if you squeezed the cans the meter would jump. So I guess under auditing, if a question or answer makes you uncomfortable enough to tighten your grip the auditor can see the meter and tell he's found an engram.

[/ QUOTE ]
So did you see L. Ron Hubbard's office? They showed me an office that, of course, no one uses. It's supposedly Hubbard's office with his name on the desk and everything. It was very much like an altar or shrine.

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's somewhat of a pyramid type deal. People are pressured to buy into the next level and one of the ways they make money for the buy in is to sell the lower levels to friends and in house prospects. I suspect if you took the auditor job you would become a hot in house prospect and would be enduring a lot of high pressure sales techniques applied on you.

[/ QUOTE ]
The "application" they gave me had a long section in which I was supposed to list the name and addresses, I believe, of all of my family members, and make comments on who would have a problem with me working for the Scientologists. Of course, I never filled it out, but it was very creepy. However, it makes sense that they would want this, considering the pyramid type deal you're describing. At the time they were soliciting me, I had no money and no job. So if I'd worked for them, the only money they could get from me would be their own. Unless, of course, they could go after my family.

[Rev. Good Will]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's amazing to me that something this fundamentally weird and dorky has become the focus of a new religious trend.


[/ QUOTE ]
It is well within the collective power of the posters on this board to start a Religion. In fact, it would be an interesting experiment.


[/ QUOTE ]

May the variance be with you

[sleight]

I think the levels of insane cult-ness work out to be:

Scientology &gt; Mormonism &gt; Jehovah's witnesses

All are pretty similar in usage of social control techniques. The money requirement really puts the scientologists above the rest; as far as I know no other religions explicitly charge you to become enlightened. They just suggest that godman will be a little happier with that 10%. The only difference between churches and death cults is that death cults can't find anything else to spend the money on or have already blown it. Time to meet the mothership/godman/mothra/cheese nip!

[CashFlo]

LOL!!!

[AthenianStranger]

[ QUOTE ]
There are vast amounts of credulous people swarming about the earth. So it is not amazing at all, in my opinion, that Scientology exists or that people fall for this kind of hooey. Just examine the fundamental beliefs and principle creeds of many well-established religions and you run up against this same type of buffoonery.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know why you equate money-scheme new-age spiritual life-motivation fads like Scientology with real religions, i.e. Christianity, Islam, Buddhism. It is a difference in kind, not in degree. The latter have actual philosophical, thological, ontological, and metaphysical doctrines to justify them. Just because the doctrine of faith seems ridiculous to you, does not make it the same as the ideology of a cult. Scientology is embraced by celebrities, because it strokes their vanities. Objectivism is embraced by rich capitalists because it congratulates them for being rich capitalists. Real religion, however, asks for humilty, asks the obedient follower to endure suffering, to lower himself before God. These two things are not alike.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are vast amounts of credulous people swarming about the earth. So it is not amazing at all, in my opinion, that Scientology exists or that people fall for this kind of hooey. Just examine the fundamental beliefs and principle creeds of many well-established religions and you run up against this same type of buffoonery.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know why you equate money-scheme new-age spiritual life-motivation fads like Scientology with real religions, i.e. Christianity, Islam, Buddhism. It is a difference in kind, not in degree. The latter have actual philosophical, thological, ontological, and metaphysical doctrines to justify them. Just because the doctrine of faith seems ridiculous to you, does not make it the same as the ideology of a cult. Scientology is embraced by celebrities, because it strokes their vanities. Objectivism is embraced by rich capitalists because it congratulates them for being rich capitalists. Real religion, however, asks for humilty, asks the obedient follower to endure suffering, to lower himself before God. These two things are not alike.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well said.

[parttimepro]

One interesting aspect of Scientology is that they have copyrighted all of their religious texts. That way, if someone quotes from them to show how fkn stupid they are, the Scientologists can sue them. Whether they win or not, they cause a huge hassle for the defendant and make an example of people who mess with Scientology.

They're probably the most litigious religion (Hey, that'd be a good band name). A year or two ago, they sued Google for linking to an anti-Scientology website. They also sued Time for publishing an expose of their scheme ten years ago. They lost both times, but they let people know that saying bad things about Scientology will mean a lawsuit.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know why you equate money-scheme new-age spiritual life-motivation fads like Scientology with real religions, i.e. Christianity, Islam, Buddhism. It is a difference in kind, not in degree. The latter have actual philosophical, thological, ontological, and metaphysical doctrines to justify them. Just because the doctrine of faith seems ridiculous to you, does not make it the same as the ideology of a cult. Scientology is embraced by celebrities, because it strokes their vanities. Objectivism is embraced by rich capitalists because it congratulates them for being rich capitalists. Real religion, however, asks for humilty, asks the obedient follower to endure suffering, to lower himself before God. These two things are not alike.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're quickly becoming my favourite poster.

[Zeno]

Excellent and interesting post.

A few comments.

[ QUOTE ]
Real religion, however, asks for humilty, asks the obedient follower.....

[/ QUOTE ]

There are genuine positive goals to aspects of ' real religion'. But it is not entirely apples and oranges as you state. There is amble amounts of metaphysical hooey, questionable beliefs, and rigid orthodoxy in ‘real religions’ that is not only 'required belief’ but also inimical to rational thinking and the progressive growth of individuals and society as a whole – this leads to various consequences, many of which do not produce good fruit. A simple perusal of history (and any current newspaper or magazine) gives clear evidence of this fact. Of course in practice, many individuals ignore the more ‘questionable beliefs’ etc of certain religions and focus on other more positive aspects - but many also do not. In fact, the trivial aspects become magnified over time leading to social fractions and friction and are also used by scoundrels to promote power schemes, wars and intolerance, inflame passions and promote hatred.

To put it succinctly: the damage inflected by ‘real religion’ on the vast majority of individuals and on society as a whole far exceeds any positive net contribution it gives. That is my opinion. You may differ with me on that score and that is fine. We will just disagree.

-Zeno

[PairTheBoard]

"So did you see L. Ron Hubbard's office? They showed me an office that, of course, no one uses. It's supposedly Hubbard's office with his name on the desk and everything. It was very much like an altar or shrine."

-- Jason


LOL. No, I don't remember an office for L. Ron. This was in Riverside, California. I'm not sure L. Ron ever got out to that neck of the woods.

PairTheBoard

[Jake (The Snake)]

Wikipedia is your friend.

I was pretty disappointed by what I read as I too was pretty interested since it has been in the news so much recently.

[jason1990]

[ QUOTE ]
"So did you see L. Ron Hubbard's office? They showed me an office that, of course, no one uses. It's supposedly Hubbard's office with his name on the desk and everything. It was very much like an altar or shrine."

-- Jason


LOL. No, I don't remember an office for L. Ron. This was in Riverside, California. I'm not sure L. Ron ever got out to that neck of the woods.

PairTheBoard

[/ QUOTE ]
Well I was in Portland, Oregon. Maybe L. Ron had been in Portland. But this office was in the Church of Scientology Celebrity Center, which was constructed after his death. My understanding was that no one had ever even been in the office, except to clean it. I was only allowed to look in from the hallway through the open door.

[ceskylev]

I've heard this as well, with the bet involving various other sci-fi writers like Asimov and Harlan Ellison. The closest I could come to confirmation was this (perhaps excerpted) interview with Ellison which reads more like a random chat than a formal interview. FWIW

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/truth/religion.shtml

It's about halfway down the page.

[PairTheBoard]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"So did you see L. Ron Hubbard's office? They showed me an office that, of course, no one uses. It's supposedly Hubbard's office with his name on the desk and everything. It was very much like an altar or shrine."

-- Jason


LOL. No, I don't remember an office for L. Ron. This was in Riverside, California. I'm not sure L. Ron ever got out to that neck of the woods.

PairTheBoard

[/ QUOTE ]
Well I was in Portland, Oregon. Maybe L. Ron had been in Portland. But this office was in the Church of Scientology Celebrity Center, which was constructed after his death. My understanding was that no one had ever even been in the office, except to clean it. I was only allowed to look in from the hallway through the open door.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like that might be a Scientology tradition to have an L. Ron office in all of their locations. If they did let me peek in his Riverside office my mind would probably have been more on the pretty girl who was showing me around. lol.

PairTheBoard

[bohemian]

Fraud.