Hmmm wasn't sure what to do here - 77 facing a big raise... 75/150

[Karak567]

***** Hand History for Game 2241610791 *****
NL Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee Trny:13287828 Level:5 Blinds(75/150) - Tuesday, June 21, 15:59:04 EDT 2005
Table Table 11560 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: mith11h11 ( $2345 )
Seat 2: jonnyroyale ( $1687 )
Seat 3: sepher28 ( $910 )
Seat 4: MAH253 ( $1195 )
Seat 10: robbo3422 ( $1863 )
Trny:13287828 Level:5
Blinds(75/150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to sepher28 [ 7c 7d ]
mith11h11 folds.
jonnyroyale raises [800].
sepher28 is all-In [910]

[Newt_Buggs]

easy fold, there's no way that you're ahead here.

[lastchance]

You've only got 6x BB? Reads would be nice here, but I think standard play is fold.

[schilling38]

I don't understand why this is such a standard fold. Isn't there a fair chance the raiser has AK or AQ or something of that nature and not an overpair? I mean the raiser only has 11BB or so and could be making this play with a hand that isn't dominating 77. What am I missing here?

[treeofwisdom7]

i think i understand this hand. its a fold.

anyway why dont you tell us what he had and how he played b4 this hand so when this happens to us we can have an idea of what villian plays with in this situation

[schilling38]

[ QUOTE ]
i think i understand this hand. its a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]


...Why is it a clear fold? Doesn't a player need to take coinflips to improve his chances of winning a tournament? Please someone in this thread explain their reasoning for making 77 a clear fold in this spot.

Is it because most would say "At best we're a coinflip but possibly a 4-1 underdog? The raiser only has 11BB and is about to have less after the BB hits him. Why is this a clear fold?

[lastchance]

If AQ is the worst part of his range, he's pushing 99-AA as well.

You're getting completely PWNED by that. 35% (which is HORRIBLE)

If AT is the worst hand he shows here, he's pushing 66-AA, and you suck against that as well, (42%)

Your opponent better be pushing at least A5 here before you even think about calling. (ok, so I was exaggerating, any ace probably makes this a call)

77 is just not that good to call with. The gap is very large.

You're not taking a coinflip when your opponent is pushing AQ and not much worse than that. You're getting dominated.

[schilling38]

[ QUOTE ]
If AQ is the worst part of his range, he's pushing 99-AA as well.

You're getting completely PWNED by that. 35% (which is HORRIBLE)

If AT is the worst hand he shows here, he's pushing 66-AA, and you suck against that as well, (42%)

Your opponent better be pushing at least A5 here before you even think about calling. (ok, so I was exaggerating, any ace probably makes this a call)

77 is just not that good to call with. The gap is very large.

You're not taking a coinflip when your opponent is pushing AQ and not much worse than that. You're getting dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Helpful post.

[RobGW]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't a player need to take coinflips to improve his chances of winning a tournament?

[/ QUOTE ]

If we knew that villian just had overcards this would be a clear push. The problem is we don't know that. In fact, I would think that if villian had overs or a smaller PP he would have pushed it all in. Since he bet half his stack this tells me two things. He is not going to fold and he doesn't mind getting all his chips in here.

[treeofwisdom7]

my point was this. we dont know from experience what kind of hands the donk is playing. maybe in these cases donks only use hand ranges like the one lastchance put up.. but we dont know if its even a coin flip or if his hand range is a coin flip.

thats why im asking what his hand was so i know in the future. i think you players assume too much. you need to be jotting down the hands you have seen donks play in simmilar situations b4.

[lastchance]

Too many fish.... Plus, a precise read on hand ranges really isn't that important especially when you have so little info to work with. Those are just the ranges I use.

If he pushes something insane, jot notes, but anything reasonable isn't worth jotting, and you certainly can't know what kind of crap they're folding (without very useful software).