Hi, my first hand post.

[Online247]

I've finally decided to sign up for these forums... How does this hand look? Villian is a TAG.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

River: (8.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

[sexypanda]

Looks good, as long as your willing to fold to a 3-bet on the turn, or any river bet. I like the turn raise rather than just calling down because you have a little extra fold equity and can see a showdown for the same price.

[kapw7]

Why do you raise the turn and not the flop. It is much cheaper and you can get rid of your hand easier. Do you expect him to fold the turn? It won't happen very often. Free showdown? It's not actually free and you don't want to see every showdown (e.g. K /images/graemlins/spade.gif river)

[Online247]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you raise the turn and not the flop. It is much cheaper and you can get rid of your hand easier. Do you expect him to fold the turn? It won't happen very often. Free showdown? It's not actually free and you don't want to see every showdown (e.g. K /images/graemlins/spade.gif river)

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought he might fold the turn.

Yeah I wasn't sure about the turn raise. WOuld you advise leading the turn after re-raising the flop and then checking the river? Oh and if he capped it do I fold the flop or peel one off to see the turn?

[aK13]

I don't raise the turn.

[Online247]

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I don't raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you call down or fold?

[Rosencrantz1]

I would also just call the turn.

If I called and he checked the river, I might consider betting the river with the hope that he'll get scared by the flush and fold. Any thoughts on that; am I setting myself up for trouble...?

[kapw7]

Without reads , normally I fold b/c I'll have to call the river as well which makes my odds even worse. This is the standard play.
However maybe 1 of 5 times or less, I'll raise like you. Party 2/4 players are very weak tight and they love to fold to turn raises when they feel "dominated". The last one gets a disclaimer. I don't want to be attacked here.

[SayGN]

I like your line here. 3betting the flop, betting the turn (assuming he doesnt check raise your turn), and checking the river is also a good line. You would save 1/2 a big bet by 3betting the flop if he calls and check/calls the turn. However, I think he is more likely to bet out on the turn after a 3 bet than he is to lead out on the river after your turn raise. Your line is fine. I like it. I also like the alternate line of 3betting the flop. Good post, I'd like to see what more people have to say about this one.

[aK13]

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I don't raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you call down or fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Call down. BB might expect that you have overs and have missed this raggy flop, and has shown aggression with something like two /images/graemlins/spade.gif or a mid PP that you are a head of, but would probably also play a weak J like this as well. (J9, for example).

[tewall]

I agree with ak13. This seems like a classic hand to play passively. It's good enough to beat bluffs, but not good enough to get better hands to fold. So aggression is likely to work against you by either giving better hands more money or getting rid of the hands you'd like to stick around.

Also I don't see how one could fold a hand like this. There's too many players who will push a hand like AK or AQ here to throw your hand away, as well as the hands ak13 mentioned.

[Rosencrantz1]

[ QUOTE ]

Also I don't see how one could fold a hand like this. There's too many players who will push a hand like AK or AQ here to throw your hand away, as well as the hands ak13 mentioned.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to clarify -- AK beats us, right?

[aK13]

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Also I don't see how one could fold a hand like this. There's too many players who will push a hand like AK or AQ here to throw your hand away, as well as the hands ak13 mentioned.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to clarify -- AK beats us, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you know the K /images/graemlins/spade.gif was coming on the river?

and FWIW, TAG would probably 3 bet AK and AQ preflop.

[Rosencrantz1]

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Also I don't see how one could fold a hand like this. There's too many players who will push a hand like AK or AQ here to throw your hand away, as well as the hands ak13 mentioned.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to clarify -- AK beats us, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you know the K /images/graemlins/spade.gif was coming on the river?

and FWIW, TAG would probably 3 bet AK and AQ preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I knew!!! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Sorry, I thought you meant folding on the river...

[sexypanda]

I think this hand's really interesting so I decided to cross-post this in the SS forum to see what they thought over there: Link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=2689718&amp;page=0&amp;view=colla psed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1)

Edit: For future reference, 2/4 hands should go in the SS forum

[handsome]

There was some horrible advice in this thread. I play the hand the same way against most TAG's.

[toss]

Don't you think raising the turn is a better line to take if you wanted to showdown? You spend the same amount of bets, but you also gain more and lose less when villain is on a draw.

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't you think raising the turn is a better line to take if you wanted to showdown? You spend the same amount of bets, but you also gain more and lose less when villain is on a draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn raise gains more value when you can make him fold. You don't really want to see every showdown here (there are SO many cards that can beat you on the river)

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this hand's really interesting so I decided to cross-post this in the SS forum to see what they thought over there: Link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=2689718&amp;page=0&amp;view=colla psed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1)

[/ QUOTE ]

So what? There is one reply only from a guy that posts in micros anyway.

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: For future reference, 2/4 hands should go in the SS forum

[/ QUOTE ]
I post mine here. I love the micro thread

[einbert]

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There was some horrible advice in this thread. I play the hand the same way against most TAG's.

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[sexypanda]

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[ QUOTE ]
I think this hand's really interesting so I decided to cross-post this in the SS forum to see what they thought over there: Link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=2689718&amp;page=0&amp;view=colla psed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1)

[/ QUOTE ]

So what? There is one reply only from a guy that posts in micros anyway.

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: For future reference, 2/4 hands should go in the SS forum

[/ QUOTE ]
I post mine here. I love the micro thread

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't trying to flame the OP by any means. I think he played it perfectly, but when I came back and read the rest of the thread, I saw alot of advice against this play. No offense to any micro players (I worked my way up from the .02/.04 games), but I think this hand plays differently at 2/4 than a .5/1 game. I just wanted to see what other 2/4 regulars who may not look at this forum thought of the hand. So far, they unanimously agree that he played it right.

[toss]

Villain will have a flush draw a good amount of the time here. Lets say we call his turn bet and the river is a non-flush. He checks and what do we do? He obviously folds the flush draw if we bet (He saves one bet since we didn't raise the turn) or he'll call with something like J9 that he stopped betting since we called all the way and he's afraid of his kicker.

[Online247]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think this hand's really interesting so I decided to cross-post this in the SS forum to see what they thought over there: Link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=2689718&amp;page=0&amp;view=colla psed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1)

[/ QUOTE ]

So what? There is one reply only from a guy that posts in micros anyway.

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: For future reference, 2/4 hands should go in the SS forum

[/ QUOTE ]
I post mine here. I love the micro thread

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't trying to flame the OP by any means. I think he played it perfectly, but when I came back and read the rest of the thread, I saw alot of advice against this play. No offense to any micro players (I worked my way up from the .02/.04 games), but I think this hand plays differently at 2/4 than a .5/1 game. I just wanted to see what other 2/4 regulars who may not look at this forum thought of the hand. So far, they unanimously agree that he played it right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh no offense taken, but yeah I'll post 2/4 hands in SS from now on. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[kapw7]

Sarcasm down...

As said I don't like it as a standard play. I prefer the flop 3-bet. When you have a hand with no outs like 99 you have to be agressive with it until you "hit the wall".

If you just call the flop then I like the turn raise 20% of times (not sure about the actual number). Any bluff turn raise is good at Party 2/4 and this particular example is even favourable. But as a standard play I'm folding because of small pot plus having to call a river bet.

[MrEngenic]

I often CR flush draws from the blinds HU against a preflop raiser, especially with potentially dominated hands like ATs-AQs or hands with no showdown value. It works everytime until he decides calls down to keep me honest. But the next time I will do it with a set or two pair and he will call down a hand he would have folded if he didn't see this before.

I really don't know what to say about this play. It's not something I'd do without a strong read. If you do want to see a showdown I think raising the turn and folding to a raise is better than calling down. Interesting hand