Am I married to my pocket pairs?

[deception5]

Sorry for all the posts - I've been on a huge downswing for the past week and a half so trying to plug some holes!

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (11 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button folds.

Turn: (7.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls.

I was folding the turn if it was 2 back to me but when the cutoff bet I thought it was a good opportunity to thin the field. Should I just bet out here? Check/fold?

[Gazzbut]

Newbie here so dont pay too much attention! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I would have folded the flop. With six players there is a good chance you could be up against trip 2's and its likely your pair is being beaten by AA so you will need to improve your hand, to do that you need another J. which is 23/1 meaning you have no where near the pot odds needed to make your bet on the flop...

Does that sound about right? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[silvershade]

I'd say that CO probably has the flush, but its worth seeing the showdown just in case, check/call. I think the flop is ok but i wouldnt have raised on the turn with that board, in fact I may have folded.

[jrz1972]

I would have folded the turn.

First, when you have an pair and an A hits on the flop, you need to tread carefully. Auto-folding is bad, but ignoring the A is worse.

Second, you showed aggression PF, then you bet the flop, and you still got called in 3 spots. That should be a red flag. They're not ALL on flush draws.

Finally, CO suddenly emerged out of nowhere on the turn. Why? Probably because he was afraid you were about to check behind and didn't want to miss a bet on this street. That's pretty ominous.

I think it's very unlikely that you're ahead, and even if you are you could end up losing to anybody with a /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

It is not weak-tight to fold when you are obviously beaten and drawing super-thin.

[sean c]

Without the J /images/graemlins/heart.gif I don't understand the turn raise.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have folded the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is weak. There is no reason for anybody to be in here with a 2, and just because an A flopped doesn't mean somebody has one. The flush draw is worrisome, but that's just that much more reason not to risk a free card.

I would bet out on this flop 100% of the time, planning to reevaluate if I run into aggression.

[BlackRain]

I like the PF raise but with this amount of people involved, you are really playing for a set. Therefore, the flop bet is iffy. You have to fold the turn.

[Amerretto]

*Grunching*

Not to worried abou the 2's since ( I would hope) very few people would be calling a raise with x2. The Ace hitting and the two suited are the problems on the flop. Someone with an Ace, has you beat, people at this limit seem to love to play Aces so chances are at least one person has it.

Then with three suited at the turn, it looks as if hitting a J /images/graemlins/heart.gif is no longer any good, leaving you one out with no pot odds to go for it.

Clear fold IMHO.

[Bradyams]

First, to a previous poster the J/images/graemlins/heart.gif is indeed a full out. Do you see why?

Second, I don't understand the turn check-raise. What's the point? If you are going to spend 2 bets on the turn I'd rather spend one bet on the turn, and one bet on the river and see a showdown.

[sean c]

[ QUOTE ]
First, to a previous poster the J/images/graemlins/heart.gif is indeed a full out. Do you see why?

Second, I don't understand the turn check-raise. What's the point? If you are going to spend 2 bets on the turn I'd rather spend one bet on the turn, and one bet on the river and see a showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Missed the 2's thx for the correction.

[SocialWelfareIV]

[ QUOTE ]

I was folding the turn if it was 2 back to me but when the cutoff bet I thought it was a good opportunity to thin the field. Should I just bet out here? Check/fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop good, flop good.

The turn, not so good. The "thin the field" reasoning doesn't make a lot of sense here. Nobody with a flush, 2, or A is folding. Anybody that you're knocking out of this pot, you've got beat and is drawing very thin -- either to a gutshot, a set, a one card flush, etc. I think you want these people in the pot.

What to do on the turn? I like a check/call if it's one back to you and there are (or will likely be) some callers. You've got the two J outs and I'd give you at least one out for the 2's, maybe even 1.5. I think you make it up in implied odds, especially if you J /images/graemlins/heart.gif. You're going to make a bunch of money on that card.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
Finally, CO suddenly emerged out of nowhere on the turn. Why? Probably because he was afraid you were about to check behind and didn't want to miss a bet on this street. That's pretty ominous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had already checked the turn - co was closing the action here. If I'd been on the button I would have certainly folded if he bet into me.

[iNsChris]

Fold the turn

[Sightless]

I'd fold the turn, too many things that could possibly beat me

[minttea]

I'm not going to comment on the hand as a whole, but I will mention one thing. I think three different people said no one has any business being in this pot with x2, and I don't agree. Four people limped into this pot before Hero's raise, including the button and the CO.

If you think no one should be in this pot with x2, tell me you fold A2s in those positions in a Party .50/1 game.

Of course, that said, it's pretty obvious on the turn that no one has A2s, but I don't think it's right to say no one with a 2 should have played the hand.

Oh, and if I'm totally wrong, please correct me - I'm new at this, but I do play at these levels, and I consider Axs profitable from LP.

edit: I re-read the posts, several were saying things more like "don't worry about a 2" rather than "no one should have played a 2". I agree with don't worry about a 2. But I should also mention that I could imagine CO or button playing K2s, or even some lower ones.

[TripleH68]

The only reasonable draw on the flop hit on the turn.

Dump it.

[MrBlueNose]

Why not bet out and fold to a raise on the turn? From the flop I've seen nothing yet that convinces me we're beat to an ace. This is .5/1....there's as much chance as having a guy with 34 and another with 66 out there, as there is Ax. The turn card's icky, and the only reason I'd even consider check-raising there would be to get the K or Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif out but as we don't have the J, I don't like the CR. We still don't know where we're at. That bet could be coming from multiple hands. At least betting the turn, if raised we know where we're at.

Bet the turn, fold to a raise(unless it's one of those raise-happy players that take "the only way he can win the pot is to bet" way too literally).

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the PF raise but with this amount of people involved, you are really playing for a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[grjr]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have folded the turn.

First, when you have an pair and an A hits on the flop, you need to tread carefully. Auto-folding is bad, but ignoring the A is worse.

Second, you showed aggression PF, then you bet the flop, and you still got called in 3 spots. That should be a red flag. They're not ALL on flush draws.

Finally, CO suddenly emerged out of nowhere on the turn. Why? Probably because he was afraid you were about to check behind and didn't want to miss a bet on this street. That's pretty ominous.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hero checked the turn.

[SoftcoreRevolt]

Can't really add anything new, preflop and flop are good, fold the turn.

And whoever said you are playing for a set is quite wrong. You'll still flop an overpair 1/3 of the time here.