Play AK differently? Fold the flop?

[deception5]

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls, SB folds.

Flop: (11 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, Button folds, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero folds

[jrz1972]

The flop call is marginal. If nobody else raises and everybody calls the last raise, Hero is getting 8.5-1 on his call. He's drawing to roughly 4.5 outs, so calling is okay, though folding would have been fine as well, especially when you consider that Hero isn't closing the action.

Easy turn fold when the backdoor flush closes.

[kitaristi0]

I'd fold this on the flop. Even though you're getting enticing odds, the board is highly coordinated with the two flush and the straight possibilities. Without the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif this is a clear fold in my book. However, with the backdoor nut flush draw calling the flop is perhaps marginally profitable.

[kapw7]

I would fold. Your only chance for the pot is the backdoor flush. It's unlikely you'll win with a pair of aces or kings. So many people, a lot of action and so many cards to come that make straights and flushes. You can get sandwiched on the flop (if UTG 3-bets for example). You can see a heart on the turn and then have to pay a lot to see the river.

[silvershade]

I'd have folded the flop without a second thought, the board is just too coordinated. I guess the back door flush draw is something but wouldnt be enough to change my mind on folding.

[BlackRain]

fold flop everytime.

[Fantam]

Yes, I think you should fold on the flop.

You have 3 opponents on a co-ordinated board, and one of them has raised. The raiser could easily have 2 pair or a set, and the other 2 players could have a pair or straight or flush draws.

Even if you make top pair, you could still easily lose this pot. So you are probably only looking at your backdoor nut flush as a realistic chance of winning.

The pot is starting to become big, but it is costing you 7:1 to call on the flop, and you are probably too unlikely to win.

[Marquis]

I lead this flop, myself.

[sean c]

[ QUOTE ]
I lead this flop, myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

First to act on this board against four others? I don't see any reason to bet this flop. Please explain your thoughts on a flop bet I am not seeing it.

[Marquis]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I lead this flop, myself.

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First to act on this board against four others? I don't see any reason to bet this flop. Please explain your thoughts on a flop bet I am not seeing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got overcards and a backdoor draw, and I want to see the turn. I want to give an ISD a chance to fold right away. I think I can see the turn for one bet more often by betting out than by checking, as people are less apt to raise the preflop raiser than they are someone else. Less importantly, checking gives away my hand.

[WSOP Bound]

I concur. Unless this comes back to me 3-bet I'm going to see this turn. So I think it falls into the I'm going to call so I might as well bet category.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
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I lead this flop, myself.

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First to act on this board against four others? I don't see any reason to bet this flop. Please explain your thoughts on a flop bet I am not seeing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got overcards and a backdoor draw, and I want to see the turn. I want to give an ISD a chance to fold right away. I think I can see the turn for one bet more often by betting out than by checking, as people are less apt to raise the preflop raiser than they are someone else. Less importantly, checking gives away my hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

ISD's won't fold for one bet. Personally I disagree that you're more likely to see a cheap turn by betting than checking. Checking does give your hand away, but I imagine we weren't going to bet on 4th street unimproved anyway nor are you winning this hand unimproved as well.

[Marquis]

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ISD's won't fold for one bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif UTG and Hero bet, would you call? A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif?

I also like betting out because after I do and the first three people fold, I like to stand up and scream "FOLD!" at the last guy. Granted, it's really unlikely.

[davelin]

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ISD's won't fold for one bet.

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If you had K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif UTG and Hero bet, would you call?

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I'd even consider raising.

[Marquis]

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ISD's won't fold for one bet.

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If you had K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif UTG and Hero bet, would you call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd even consider raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

You maniac. I wouldn't.

[crownjules]

[ QUOTE ]
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ISD's won't fold for one bet.

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If you had K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif UTG and Hero bet, would you call?

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I'd even consider raising.

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Why? From your perspective, Hero's raise could mean overcards or an overpair. You're willing to raise on a gutshot straight alone? I can see the case for clearing up some outs, but that exposes you to a 3-bet with no hand and a weak draw.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
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ISD's won't fold for one bet.

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If you had K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif UTG and Hero bet, would you call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd even consider raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I'm a maniac /images/graemlins/grin.gif My point is more to show that folding KT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif UTG to a single bet from Hero is pretty weak IMO.

[Entity]

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I lead this flop, myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Leading this flop into 5 players is probably indicative of a minor leak in overcard play.

Rob

[Marquis]

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Yeah I'm a maniac /images/graemlins/grin.gif My point is more to show that folding KT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif UTG to a single bet from Hero is pretty weak IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

The bet coming from right next to you would make it a fold, IMO. You've only got a few tainted outs.


[ QUOTE ]
Leading this flop into 5 players is probably indicative of a minor leak in overcard play.

[/ QUOTE ]

But leading into 4 is fine? I think it really doesn't matter much.

[McGahee]

Yeah, fold the flop. A BDFD cannot compensate for the strong possibility of reverse domination and an enormous number of redraws.

[imported_The Vibesman]

I would probably fold this on the flop for fear of UTG raising, as it seems to be a borderline call at best. If I was closing the action I may peel one, but fold the turn unimproved. I don't think a raise is right, as I don't see what hands we will fold that we also won't outdraw if we hit.

Turn fold looks fine to me.

[2+2 Junkie]

I am not sure why leading out here makes sense. I understand that if you are willing to call, you should bet. However, with a coordinated board and a flush possibility against this many opponents, you are going to get raised more times than you are going to have everyone simply call your lead. So, the question for me in this situation is how likely is my bet to be raised? If it is likely, which IMO it is in this case, you have to ask yourself if your hand good enough to call two bets. I don't think so. Check and fold the flop.

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
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Leading this flop into 5 players is probably indicative of a minor leak in overcard play.

[/ QUOTE ]

But leading into 4 is fine? I think it really doesn't matter much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Leading into 4 is not fine, either.