POLL - Iraq across the table (Warning: poker content)

[Cyrus]

From a recent poll on Iraq and Bush’s performance as president :

[ QUOTE ]
CNN -- Nearly six in 10 Americans oppose the war in Iraq and a growing number of them are dissatisfied with the war on terrorism, according to a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll released Monday.
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Only 39 percent of those polled said they favored the war in Iraq -- down from 47 percent in March -- and 59 percent were opposed.
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In a Gallup poll earlier this month that asked, "All in all, do you think it was worth going to war in Iraq, or not," 56 percent said it was not worth it and 42 percent said it was.
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For only the second time in a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll, more respondents than not disapproved of Bush's job performance. The count was 51 percent, the same percentage recorded in the poll on May 7, 2004.
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Only 23 percent said they had a great deal of confidence in the Bush administration's ability to protect U.S. citizens from future terrorist attacks, down from 38 percent in February.

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[vulturesrow]

The 23% group because they clearly are ignoring short-term variance because they understand the +EV was maximized by the US's actions. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ACPlayer]

Today, at Foxwoods, I saw the 23 percent talking about their positive EV and the temporary bad beats as they walked back and forth to and from the ATM machine. In their defense they did wave the American Flag and had Factor T-Shirts on.

I racked up their chips, again!

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
Today, at Foxwoods, I saw the 23 percent talking about their positive EV and the temporary bad beats as they walked back and forth to and from the ATM machine. In their defense they did wave the American Flag and had Factor T-Shirts on.

I racked up their chips, again!

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Just because you may recognize long term +EV doesnt mean you are personally capable of maximizing it in your own life. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Arnfinn Madsen]

I prefer the 23% group since their leader has a tendency to put in many chips preflop with bad hands. Then he proceeds to believeing he has the nuts when he only has a 2-outer. Even when drawing dead I think he would consider himself favourite /images/graemlins/shocked.gif.

[ACPlayer]

Keep your day job.

You want to play against the group you think makes better decisions. /images/graemlins/confused.gif Typical thinking of the 23 percenters. /images/graemlins/grin.gif That is why they end up as 23 percenters. /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Ben Therre]

Sadam thought Bush was bluffing, boy was he wrong. So when Bush went all in he could of folded, but instead he called then hid in a hole. I rather play against Sadam and the 77% who don't understand the stakes.

[Greg J]

Not related to the post.

Interesting avatar. I suppose you are a big supporter of Turkey joining the EU. I certainly am, as is a friend of mine from Turkey. Just wondering -- you think it will happen?

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Sadam thought Bush was bluffing, boy was he wrong

[/ QUOTE ] No he didn't. Saddam said he had 2-7 offsuit. Bush continued to say that Saddam had cards up his sleeve and would pull out a bunch of Aces.

Bush went in.... Saddam had no aces. Just a measly 2-7 offsuit. Like he said.

[ QUOTE ]
So when Bush went all in he could of folded

[/ QUOTE ] He was already showing his hand... he showed the world he had no aces up his sleeve. He didn't even have a sleeve. But Bush lied and wouldn't allow him to do anything.

[ QUOTE ]
I rather play against Sadam and the 77% who don't understand the stakes.

[/ QUOTE ] I'd rathar play against revisionists. They're the kind of people who play call raises with dominated hands, hit a 3 outer on the river and then think they made a good play.

[player24]

Online - I'll play against "the rest". They have the "fold-to-any-bet" button permanently checked.

[Ben Therre]

Bush was not worried about any aces, it was the joker that he had hidden somewhere. Everybody knew he had it, he trumped (killed) many of his own with it. We wanted proof that he no longer had a joker but Sadam refused produce. Sadam could have folded 27 instead he played cat and mouse with us the UN and all you French thinking types. None of this is really the point now. We're all in and the stakes are to high to fold now. And don't let your hatred for Bush blind you to the sacrifices of freedom and the good work that is being acomplished.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Bush was not worried about any aces, it was the joker that he had hidden somewhere.

[/ QUOTE ] There was no joker. The dealer searched Saddam and found no joker. But since Bush was just a con artist and a thief he didn't care. Because it was never about any fictitious joker.

I love neocon revisionists.

[ QUOTE ]
We wanted proof that he no longer had a joker but Sadam refused produce.

[/ QUOTE ] Come on.. you can't be this ignorant. The UN had unfettered access to Iraq, went everywhere the US said they would find weapons... and they found nothing. Not to mention, both Rice and Powell had said prior to 9/11 that Saddam was no threat. Pull your head out of your rear end.

[ QUOTE ]
and all you French thinking types

[/ QUOTE ] aah, there it is. That's proof enough for me that you're a waste of time. Typical RW troll.

[trying2learn]

[ QUOTE ]
Online - I'll play against "the rest". They have the "fold-to-any-bet" button permanently checked.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's hilarious...

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
that's hilarious...

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be really funny if it was mildly accurate.

It would be more accurate to say the 23% are maniacs who don't care about the cards. They just bet.

[Ben Therre]

Intelligence from all over the world said he had the joker even your buddy Clinton said he was a threat. Speaking about pulling your head out, everybody knows that the dealer (UN) was in bed with Sadam. The fact is that your Party made this issue to bring Bush down and it didn't work. All it did was left a bunch of you angry and full of hatred. You need to move on Sunshine and think about the future of the Iraqi people and stability of the Middle East.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Intelligence from all over the world said he had the joker

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. Rice and Powell both said he was disarmed. Were they lying?

The UN said that his stockpiles were (1) destroyed in Gulf War 1 and in the disarming afterwards and (2) any of the chemical weapons would be beyond their shelf life. Were they lying?

Much of the evidence our own intelligence agencies said wasn't legitimate (remember Bush pushing forged documents to the UN?)?

Why did our biggest allies say over a year before the invasion that the US was cooking evidence to support the drive to war?

I know... if you're a right wing idiot, you just stick your head in the ground when all this stuff comes out.

[ QUOTE ]
even your buddy Clinton said he was a threat

[/ QUOTE ] When Clinton spoke, it was years before. And Clinton didn't start a war with Iraq when inspectors were there, did he?

[ QUOTE ]
The fact is that your Party made this issue to bring Bush down and it didn't work.

[/ QUOTE ] No idiot, our party made the issue because what Bush lied to get the country to go to war. This is wrong no matter who did it.

[ QUOTE ]
All it did was left a bunch of you angry and full of hatred.

[/ QUOTE ] No, moron, its left us stuck in a country with our troops being killed daily, costing billions of dollars and with no end in site. It has increased terrorism around the world. It created more threats then it resolved.

[ QUOTE ]
You need to move on Sunshine and think about the future of the Iraqi people and stability of the Middle East.

[/ QUOTE ]

It has never been about the Iraqi people. Please don't pretend everyone is as dumb as you by implying that America went to war to help the Iraqi people. We ignore conflicts and situations around the world on a daily basis where we could assist. Only a complete idiot would think that this war had anything to do with the Iraqi people. And there is no stability in the Middle East, my ignorant friend.

Let's see what a Republican who has better access to information then a moron like you does says about Iraq:
[ QUOTE ]
Republican Senator Chuck Hagel slammed the George W. Bush administration's Iraq policy as "disconnected from reality" in some of the harshest comments to date about the war from a member of the president's own party.

Hagel, a top Senate Republican said to have presidential aspirations, said in an interview in US News and World Report, set to hit newsstands Monday, that US troops are "losing" the Iraq war, and that "things aren't getting better, they're getting worse."



[/ QUOTE ]

[Ben Therre]

You've been watching to many Micheal Moore movies. We are there to provide stability to the Middle East and the Iraqi people are apart of that plan. When Carter was in charge he let our friends in Iran get overthrown by terrorist. He did what you would have done, NOTHING! These terrorist which you seem to love have been plotting to take over the oil and small Countries with nukes for many years. And they were well on there way with the help of Carter and other like you. Thank God somebody had the guts to stand up to them to protect the worlds interest. I hope you see the light someday Sunshine.
To much anger and hatred will only turn you to dark side. I think it's to late for you.

[lastchance]

I want to play poker against bad poker players. Political beliefs have very little correlation with poker skills, or hell, even EV-based math.

Just angry of the lack of actual interesting content on the Politics forum, especially with the many disguised flame posts.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
You've been watching to many Micheal Moore movies. We are there to provide stability to the Middle East and the Iraqi people are apart of that plan.

[/ QUOTE ]

Geez, you guys all spout the same gibberish.

Aparently you missed Bush talking about how this was all about WOMD. It wasn't just something Michael Moore noticed. They talked about it constantly.

[ QUOTE ]
For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on.
Paul Wolfowitz May 28, 2003


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons....They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two [the labs were later judged to not contain any such weapons, that they most likely were used for weather balloons]. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on, But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong. We found them.- George W. Bush, remarks to reporters, May 31, 2003


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. - Dick Cheney, speech to VFW National Convention, Aug. 26, 2002

Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons. - George W. Bush, speech to UN General Assembly, Sept. 12, 2002

No terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people and the stability of the world than the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.- Donald Rumsfeld, testimony to Congress, Sept. 19, 2002

The world is also uniting to answer the unique and urgent threat posed by Iraq.- George W. Bush, Nov. 23, 2002

If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world. - Ari Fleischer, press briefing, Dec. 2, 2002

We know for a fact that there are weapons there. - Ari Fleischer, press briefing, Jan. 9, 2003

What we know from UN inspectors over the course of the last decade is that Saddam Hussein possesses thousands of chemical warheads, that he possesses hundreds of liters of very dangerous toxins that can kill millions of people. - White House spokesman Dan Bartlett, CNN interview, Jan. 26, 2003

Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard, and VX nerve agent…. The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. - George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, Jan. 28, 2003

We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more. - Colin Powell, remarks to UN Security Council, Feb. 5, 2003

We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons - the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have. - George W. Bush, radio address, Feb. 8, 2003

If Iraq had disarmed itself, gotten rid of its weapons of mass destruction over the past 12 years, or over the last several months since [UN Resolution] 1441 was enacted, we would not be facing the crisis that we now have before us.- Colin Powell, interview with Radio France International, Feb. 28, 2003

So has the strategic decision been made to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction by the leadership in Baghdad?….I think our judgment has to be clearly not. - Colin Powell, remarks to UN Security Council, March 7, 2003

Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised. - George W. Bush, address to the U.S., March 17, 2003

The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder.- George W. Bush, address to U.S., March 19, 2003

Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly…..All this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes. - Ari Fleisher, press briefing, March 21, 2003

There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. And….as this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them. - Gen. Tommy Franks, press conference, March 22, 2003

I have no doubt we're going to find big stores of weapons of mass destruction.- Defense Policy Board member Kenneth Adelman, The Washington Post, March 23, 2003

One of our top objectives is to find and destroy the WMD. There are a number of sites. - Pentagon spokeswoman Victoria Clark, press briefing, March 22, 2003

We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat. - Donald Rumsfeld, ABC interview, March 30, 2003

Obviously the administration intends to publicize all the weapons of mass destruction U.S. forces find - and there will be plenty. - Robert Kagan, The Washington Post, April 9, 2003

But make no mistake - as I said earlier - we have high confidence that they have weapons of mass destruction. That is what this war was about and it is about. And we have high confidence it will be found. - Ari Fleischer, press briefing, April 10, 2003

We are learning more as we interrogate or have discussions with Iraqi scientists and people within the Iraqi structure, that perhaps he destroyed some, perhaps he dispersed some. And so we will find them. - George W. Bush, NBC interview, April 24, 2003

There are people who in large measure have information that we need….so that we can track down the weapons of mass destruction in that country. - Donald Rumsfeld, press briefing, April 25, 2003

We'll find them. It'll be a matter of time to do so. - George W. Bush, remarks to reporters, May 3, 2003

I'm absolutely sure that there are weapons of mass destruction there and the evidence will be forthcoming. We're just getting it just now. - Colin Powell, remarks to reporters, May 4, 2003

I'm not surprised if we begin to uncover the weapons program of Saddam Hussein – because he had a weapons program. - George W. Bush, remarks to reporters, May 6, 2003

We said what we said because we meant it…..We continue to have confidence that WMD will be found.- White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, press briefing, May 7, 2003

Before the war, there's no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical. I expected them to be found. I still expect them to be found. - Gen. Michael Hagee, Commandant of the Marine Corps, interview with reporters, May 21, 2003

Given time, given the number of prisoners now that we're interrogating, I'm confident that we're going to find weapons of mass destruction. - Gen. Richard Myers, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff, NBC Today Show interview, May 26, 2003

Do I think we're going to find something? Yeah, I kind of do, because I think there's a lot of information out there."- Maj. Gen. Keith Dayton, Defense Intelligence Agency, press conference, May 30, 2003

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
We are there to provide stability to the Middle East and the Iraqi people are apart of that plan.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you say so. Do you cover your nose when you stick your head up there?

[ QUOTE ]
These terrorist which you seem to love

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL The dumber the troll, the more garbage like this they all regurgitate. Do you even try to sound original?

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To much anger and hatred will only turn you to dark side. I think it's to late for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeez... another Jaxmike. Everyone else is consumed by hatred. blah blah blah.

[Ben Therre]

Alright Sunshine, we can't change why and how we got there. I think were there to protect the world's interest and at the same time get rid of a villian who would harm us at any opportunity. You think were there cause Bush is a liar. What do you suggest we do now? Fold?

[Warchant88]

This poll should have been titled: Do you support the war? People picking the 23% obviously lean left, and vice versa.

Waste of time.

[lastchance]

Yeah. A more interesting question is, "how do you break down the war?" Don't go for big picture stuff, go details. Go EV. Go analyst mentality.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Alright Sunshine, we can't change why and how we got there. I think were there to protect the world's interest and at the same time get rid of a villian who would harm us at any opportunity. You think were there cause Bush is a liar. What do you suggest we do now? Fold?


[/ QUOTE ]

I've never suggested we fold. We've made a mess and we're stuck there. And we will be paying for it for years to come (in more ways then one.)

The point is the people who think it was about the Iraqi people despite Bush saying out right, (paraphrasing) "make no mistake about it, this is about WOMD"... they're the ones you want to play poker against.

Though let's face it, they're likely to argue that their 2 pair beats your flush.

[Ben Therre]

Oh, why didn't you say so in first place.
Every one knows that only 3 of kind beats a flush...not 2 pair.
I feel bad for messing up this guys poll, maybe we should delete.

[Cyrus]

("Versus" also means "alternative"...)

[ QUOTE ]
I suppose you are a big supporter of Turkey joining the EU.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not too enthusiastic about it since it will not be good for Turkey or Europe. Turkey should be forced to get its act together. Turkey, as the saying goes, is not a country with an army but an army with a country. This needs to change and fast.

Europe will lose by allowing in as a full member a country that bears no political, cultural or geographical affinity to the rest of the continent. (If Turkey goes in, then other such countries, such as Israel or Morocco, would have every right to demand entry as well. "The Jews are back in Europe!" /images/graemlins/grin.gif) What would be best for all concerned would be the creation of an EU-like organisation of Middle East countries, with Turkey leading the way.

The United States is keen on Turkey joining the EU for two reasons: (a) Weakening the EU's coherence, (b) adding a front-line US ally to the mix. Zbignew Brzezinsky was not being flippant in The Pivotal States.

[ QUOTE ]
You think it will happen?

[/ QUOTE ]
All bets are off after the French and Dutch referendums which killed the concept of a clumsily, ever expanding European Union. I'd speculate that the EU will benefit from this hurdle, though. There might evolve a better, more practical and efficient vision of a United States of Europe than the amalgam of all-things-to-all-people we now see.

Henry Kissinger once famously scoffed at the idea of a European Union, asking rhetorically "When I want to speak to the Foreign Minister of the EU, who do I call?"
Brussels might have a phone number for Henry before the decade is over.