$55: Finally broke even... 649 SnGs + deposit bonus => Lessons learned

[AA suited]

It was an ulcer riddled roller coaster ride.

But today i finally broke even (money wise).

I'm still down $200 from SnG's, but $100 deposit bonus, plus $100 profit from the NL tables to earn that bonus put me back to breakeven!

Variance extremes...sheesh... From never having a losing week at the $55's to my 1st bad streak being HUGE and lasting weeks.

Why couldn't my 1st bad streak be small like any other normal person? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Lessons learned:

1) If on a losing streak, just start with 1 set that day. if that set is profitable, then start another set. if not, do something else, wake up next morning and try again.

Do not start new games as you are eliminated. finish the rest of the games in the set first. you will be more and more on tilt as you keep on racking up loses.

I know I have blown the chip lead on the bubble in at least 3 SnGs and finished 4th. and numerous times where i was #2 stack, and got tired of the big stack stealing my blinds, and tangled with him with disasterous results. All cause i kept starting new games thinking this will be the game the streak ends.

2) Review your hand histories of when you were winning and compare that to how you're playing now.

3) Write down results of how you lost each SnG.

ie: bad beat, lost coing flip, normal steal and got called by a good/premium hand, he had a better hand, and my favorite... WTF did i do that for?!

I had a HUGE number of bad beats where villian caught 3, 2 and even 1 outers. Not to mention the regular bad beats (he caught his straight/flush draw). Unfortunately, i also have more 'WTF did i do that for' than 'my hand was good, his was better' /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[curtains]

Although your strategies are good now, its probably important to learn to play after losing. I don't like it but I know that itll most likely cost me a lot of money every year if I stop whenever Im down. Focus on improving your play after losing because honestly you are going to lose a lot no matter who you are. Of course also focus on being a winning player instead of a breakeven one /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]

1) If on a losing streak, just start with 1 set that day. if that set is profitable, then start another set. if not, do something else, wake up next morning and try again.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have another strategy when I am running bad at the 22s. If I lose my first set, I move down to 11s. I usually run much better there (and if I don't the losses aren't that big). When back to even I try another set of 22s.

While I am giving up some money in the long run (but with my 11s ROI close double my 22s ROI not all that much) while , I don't have those horrible $500 losing days that take a four-five days to bounce back from.

[ QUOTE ]

3) Write down results of how you lost each SnG.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a horrible idea and is just a giant pacifier. Of course you are going to conclude based on that sample that you have tonnes of bad luck.

If you don't write down the hands every time you get the money in the middle, it is worthless for anything.

[flyingmoose]

[ QUOTE ]
my 11s ROI close double my 22s ROI

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you're not trying as hard at the 22s, or not being as aggressive? I doubt many people's ROIs drop by more than 5% when they make the jump from 11s to 22s.

[Freudian]

I think it is mostly variance. I am running really well at the 11s and running poorly at the 22s (lose with JJ vs A9 in the 22s while winning with A9 vs JJ in the 11s etc). I have a very high number of 1sts in the 11s also. I think in the long run the difference will be closer. I am still a winner at the 22s so it is not like I am in a panic here.

But my biggest problem earlier was when I was running really bad I was thinking "just another set". So I played too many SnGs during downswings, while I get content when running good.

This strategy keeps me more balanced since the bad days aren't as bad as previously.

[dhende3]

Be a stoic SnG machine... I find it VERY difficult to tilt in STTs because of their mathematical nature. That being said... I am more likely to quit early if I am up for the day (psychological leak) as opposed to down.

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]

Although your strategies are good now, its probably important to learn to play after losing. I don't like it but I know that itll most likely cost me a lot of money every year if I stop whenever Im down. Focus on improving your play after losing because honestly you are going to lose a lot no matter who you are. Of course also focus on being a winning player instead of a breakeven one /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I will have to find the post where I said this. I think I was critisized for saying it, but its true. Its very - EV to not learn how to just suck it up and play without being on tilt or even letting a 30 buy in down swing touch your mentality.

I am proud to say that I am almost there. I still get a little pissy after a 200 break even streak, but I just recently plowed through a 30 buy in drop at the 55s and it came at a bad time for me too. It felt awesome to have the strength to pull through it without losing a wink of sleep.

Don't sweat it though, the best way to learn mental toughness is through experience. A painfull, suffering, horrible experience.

Enjoy

[Myst]

Yeah the only time I stop playing is when I know my emotions are starting to affect my results. That rarely happens anymore, but youll be surprised what losing 5 80/20s in heads up situations can do to you /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my 11s ROI close double my 22s ROI

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you're not trying as hard at the 22s, or not being as aggressive? I doubt many people's ROIs drop by more than 5% when they make the jump from 11s to 22s.

[/ QUOTE ]
My $22 ROI is like double my $11. I moved up to the $22s when I got better, and my opponents stayed as donkish NIGGA

[Myst]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my 11s ROI close double my 22s ROI

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you're not trying as hard at the 22s, or not being as aggressive? I doubt many people's ROIs drop by more than 5% when they make the jump from 11s to 22s.

[/ QUOTE ]
My $22 ROI is like double my $11. I moved up to the $22s when I got better, and my opponents stayed as donkish NIGGA

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah, well my $33 ROI is double my $22 ROI. Ship it!

[pergesu]

That's why I want your babies

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]


Oh yeah, well my $33 ROI is double my $22 ROI. Ship it!

[/ QUOTE ]

My 100s ROI is 5 times my 50s ROI /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I'm sure its sustainable /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]

I have another strategy when I am running bad at the 22s. If I lose my first set, I move down to 11s. I usually run much better there (and if I don't the losses aren't that big). When back to even I try another set of 22s.

While I am giving up some money in the long run (but with my 11s ROI close double my 22s ROI not all that much) while , I don't have those horrible $500 losing days that take a four-five days to bounce back from.


[/ QUOTE ]

i tried moving to the $33's. 9 OTM's in the 1st 9 i played.

/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[11t]

I'm glad to see you have worked your way out of that funk, a 649 SNG losing streak is pretty harsh. I just hope I never have to deal with that however I know I probably will one day.

I think my most common note in my spreadsheet from busting out is is "OMFG I'M A F***ING MORON LSDFJSL(*RWHR"

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]


Why couldn't my 1st bad streak be small like any other normal person? /images/graemlins/smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a common psychological poison. Do you really think that "normal people" have smaller downswings than you?

Do not assume this role. My bankrolls are going to drop 50 buy-ins and 500BB at some point before 2006. I struggle to be at peace with this statistical fact. A "normal" break-even player is likely to see much worse if they play enough.

Curtains is right about learning to play after you lose. The first step is to avoid the belief that you don't deserve whatever is happening... or that you are living an abnormal (statistical) existence.

Irieguy

[iMsoLucky0]

You need to learn to not even pay attention to if you are "up" or "down" in a certain day. Trust me, it helps.

[jah0550]

I know exactly what you mean. I am in the biggest downswing of my life. I had been playing winning poker at the 30s and 50s for about 2 years, but over the past 3 weeks, I have been running really bad.
Over my last 300 SNGs:
ITM: 12%
ROI: -9.5%
Avg finish: 5.6

I've been taking tons of 4ths and 3rds. Has that been your problem too? I only have 8 wins in my last 300. Cold cards, bad beats, ect...I have been playing the same way over the past 2 years. But lately, it seems that everytime i go all-in, i am expecting to lose, so 2 and 3 outers dont even bother me anymore.

My solution on how to get out of the rut is to just take a few days off. Let those bad beats and crap cards get out of your head. Come back a few days later with a clean slate.(At least I am hoping that will work)

gg

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

1) If on a losing streak, just start with 1 set that day. if that set is profitable, then start another set. if not, do something else, wake up next morning and try again.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have another strategy when I am running bad at the 22s. If I lose my first set, I move down to 11s. I usually run much better there (and if I don't the losses aren't that big). When back to even I try another set of 22s.

While I am giving up some money in the long run (but with my 11s ROI close double my 22s ROI not all that much) while , I don't have those horrible $500 losing days that take a four-five days to bounce back from.

[ QUOTE ]

3) Write down results of how you lost each SnG.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a horrible idea and is just a giant pacifier. Of course you are going to conclude based on that sample that you have tonnes of bad luck.

If you don't write down the hands every time you get the money in the middle, it is worthless for anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

I write down every time I suck out or get sucked out on, or if the game ends in any other way than the best hand going in winning. That basically keeps all the ground covered.

It's very helpful. Sometimes when you go on a long downswing you can see how well you've been doing prior, and it puts things into perspective, which is much harder to do by relying on perfect memory and a flawless ability to keep things in perspective. I let a notepad file keep my memory and perspective for me, or at least supplement it.

It's also helpful when I notice a huge run of being sucked-out on and then see that I survived my fair share of suck-outs recently too, and even did some sucking out myself. Recent memories always exert disproportionate influence; that's natural, and it's good to have a corrective handy that's as simple as a piece of paper. Having a personally flawless psychology is a good goal, but not a real tool most of us can pull out for daily use.

More perspective is always better than less. You can get a lot of grounding and perspective in a quick glance over records that make clear the difference between what you're feeling and what you should be feeling.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Although your strategies are good now, its probably important to learn to play after losing. I don't like it but I know that itll most likely cost me a lot of money every year if I stop whenever Im down. Focus on improving your play after losing because honestly you are going to lose a lot no matter who you are. Of course also focus on being a winning player instead of a breakeven one /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I will have to find the post where I said this. I think I was critisized for saying it, but its true. Its very - EV to not learn how to just suck it up and play without being on tilt or even letting a 30 buy in down swing touch your mentality.

I am proud to say that I am almost there. I still get a little pissy after a 200 break even streak, but I just recently plowed through a 30 buy in drop at the 55s and it came at a bad time for me too. It felt awesome to have the strength to pull through it without losing a wink of sleep.

Don't sweat it though, the best way to learn mental toughness is through experience. A painfull, suffering, horrible experience.

Enjoy

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said.

[J-Lo]

[ QUOTE ]
You need to learn to not even pay attention to if you are "up" or "down" in a certain day. Trust me, it helps.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've even gone so far as to "black out" my cashier window. You can edit the file in party./empire images folder. now when i click on cashier i can't see how much is in my account. To check how much i have in there, i go join a SNG but don't click on the chekc box. There's where i see my balance, and try and avoid looking at it when joining SNG's. I fanyone needs further clarification PM me, or ask in this thread.

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AA Suited wrote:

Why couldn't my 1st bad streak be small like any other normal person? /images/graemlins/smile.gif



[/ QUOTE ]Irieguy replied:

This is a common psychological poison. Do you really think that "normal people" have smaller downswings than you?

Do not assume this role. My bankrolls are going to drop 50 buy-ins and 500BB at some point before 2006. I struggle to be at peace with this statistical fact. A "normal" break-even player is likely to see much worse if they play enough.

Curtains is right about learning to play after you lose. The first step is to avoid the belief that you don't deserve whatever is happening... or that you are living an abnormal (statistical) existence.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

oh no.. my belief is that i suck at poker and all those winning weeks at $55 was because of the extra strength batteries in my luckbox. (i'm serious) /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

and this losing streak is the regular statistical norm.

the mere fact that i clawed my way back to even again is that i put in fresh batteries in my luckbox.

[Nick M]

I think taking a few days off is great advice. I am going through a similar situation right now. Even over 100. Little annoying I guess. But when I look at how many days I have played in the last 2 months...everyday except 3...I can start to put my finger on part of the problem. Days off is very important in straightening out your confidence.