Getting my *SS Kicked at .50/1.00 Hold'em on Paradise

[wdbaker]

Hey all,
I am fairly new but have read lee jones and some s&m. I have been playing the .50/1.00 games at paradise and gettin g my head handed to me. I feel like I am following winning rules for LL hold'em but just can't seem to get anything consistant going. Am I pissing in the wind playing these smaller games to learn. Also could you guys maybe give me your top 5 or so rules for LL Hold'em, maybe I am just thinking to much now and need to simplify what I am thinking about, you know, assimilate one group of rules and then add additional rule sets as you assimilate each one. Hope this is making sense. Yes, maybe I should have put this under the beginner forum but figured I would get more answers here from guys who know what they are talking about.

Thanks for your patience and help
wdbaker Denver, Co

[Yerma]

Playing 0.5/1 is a great way to learn. Rest assured that you are not "pissing in the wind."

Here is a "rule" like you want: consider any major hands you got into and think about alternative plays you or your opponent could have tried.

Good luck!

[Stu Pidasso]

Post some hands in an easy to read format instead. Then sit back and watch as we rip you a second sphincter for your piss poor play. Hopefully in the process you might learn something.

You don't need rules. Rules are for Squares

Stu

[balt999]

As a followup to Yerma's post, you should post a few hands to be critiqued..you'll be surprised at how helpful everyone is. It'll greatly improve you game when you can see the leaks you have in your game..

[Bob T.]

wdbaker,

You are probably doing the right things to start playing winning poker. You have started studying, and you are playing where you can get a poker education with moderately inexpensive tuition.

A couple of things you could do that would enable us to help you.

First, what is getting your *ss kicked? If you are down, $40 that is only 40 big bets, and although it isn't pleasant to be behind, that is in the normal variation of the game, and might only be an indication of bad luck. If you are down something like $200, then we most likely have something more than bad luck.

Secondly, post some hands, that you had problems with. There are several problems that players have when they are starting to play, they include.

- Playing too many hands, especially out of position.
- Not being able to release quality starting cards after an unfavorable flop.
- Not playing aggressive enough to either protect your hand, or to build large pots when you are going to win.
- Not folding when you are clearly beaten.
- Folding too often when you are most likely behind, but have sufficient odds to call.
- Not getting enough value out of your winning hands.

If you recognize any of these problems, or for that matter any other ones, post some hands, and see how the forum reacts to them.

Finally, when people post hands, don't be a lurker. You will learn more by thinking the hands through, posting responses, and seeing what kind of feedback your ideas get in the forum.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[nanoking]

Have you considered getting PokerStat? I used it heavily my first couple months playing 0.5/1 games and it brought some very quantifiable mistakes to my attention (namely the ones Bob T. listed, lol). It's reasonably priced, they just came out with a new edition, and you don't need to get the professional version.

Other than that, keep an eye on:
-when you play pocket pairs, when you get rid of them
-how low you'll go with connectors before they are unplayable
-if you're able to get rid of something like AJ if it's 3bets to you
-if you're able to get rid of hands on the flop, instead of hanging around too long

Those are some things my pokerstat data suggested to me. Other than that, did you have AA or KK cracked real bad during your last few sessions? That can skew your data.

NK

[polarbear]

A .50/1 game on Paradise is not really a LL game. The rules devised in Lee Jones' book and S&M section for LL games apply only for normal LL games, the games where almost everyone is loose-passive. That is, a HE game isn't LL depending on the stakes, but depending on how the players play.

In a typical weekend 5-10 game at the Taj, 50-70% or so on average see the flop, with almost all of the players raising far too little preflop and playing way too loose postflop. In addition, almost all of them are passive postflop. This would be a loose-passive game, typical of a LL casino game.

However, .50/$1 on Paradise is different. About 35% see the flop and the players raise far more preflop than in a casino LL game (some casino LL players never raise preflop). Most of the players play almost as passive as the casino LL players postflop, which is the only thing making .50/$1 close to a "LL HE game."

Therefore the LL rules given in Lee Jones' and S&M don't apply since the Paradise game isn't a LL game as those books define them. Read the introduction to the Lee Jones book again, you'll see that the players in the Paradise game don't come close to fitting the requirements they give for a HE game to be LL, except for maybe one or two at the table.

This doesn't mean that the .50/$1 Paradise players are strong players, they're not, they're just better than the LL casino players. The Paradise game is still easily beatable with proper strategy, plus the rake is lower than the casino, and you don't have to tip the dealer.

Keep working to improve your game. Soon you'll be the one taking the money.

[eMarkM]

I agree with polar's assessment. I started out playing poker on PP's .5/1 with Lee Jones in my hand and suffered the same fate as you. Dropped about $500 in four months play at .5/1 and 1/2. That's a lot of BBs. The Jones book is not very good for conditions at Paradise, IMHO. Then I started reading the more advanced texts like HPFAP & TOP and tried again. With that knowledge and my previous experience I was able to parlay my buy-in into a legit bankroll for 5/10 with even a few shots at 20/40 thrown in. You'll want to look at these more advanced texts for proper play.

Ok, .5/1 isn't always so tough, it can still play like a typical LL game. But in general polar is correct, about 35-40% are seeing the flop and there's very frequently a preflop raise thrown in. And once you get past the 2/4 level on PP, if you can find a game where over 40% see the flop, that is a very "juicy" game indeed. And a very rare one. Typical is 20-25% range, often lower. That's HU poker, with a raiser and a blind defender typically, and Jones doesn't deal with that very well. Anything over 50%, which happens frequently in "real" LL games, is virtually unheard of at PP, and if it is seen, you can be sure there will be a line of sharks waiting to fleece whatever fish are in there playing A2Cs.

I can remember playing in a casino for the first time after being conditioned at Paradise and I couldn't believe how bad the players were at 5/10. Even the regulars whom all the dealers knew made fishy plays. Now I play 10/20 when at a casino vs 3/6 level I play at PP and it's amazing how much tougher the 3/6 online game is on average. In the 10/20 game there's very few blind steals and chops, someone always limping with A2C, someone always cold calling your raise with crap. Blind stealing and defending are very frequent at PP, even at the mircos, and that's something that doesn't happen much in "normal" LL games.

[tewall]

There are a lot of hands which should make a small amount of money, the ones which are maginally playable hands. These are profitable hands for experienced players, but for starting out you could limit your starting hands, especially out of position, to the non-marginal ones. As you gain confidence, start adding hands to play.

[wdbaker]

Thanks All for your help, I will heed your good advice, also ordered the Wilson TTH with the little wizard guy, maybe that will help also.

Thanks
wdbaker Denver, Co

[nanoking]

Sidewinder Sid is the best! Especially when you make a more aggressive play than he would make and he says ala Stephen Hawking:

"You raised. You should have folded. You won the pot."

Maybe there are newer versions out there, but the Omaha software's shuffling algorithm seems a little fishy. But the holdem software with Sid is great and fun. Check out the simulator for investigating preflop hand holdings. You're now free from having to take random advice from other players! (stuff like you should NEVER see the flop with that hand, THAT hand is marginal, I ALWAYS defend the small blind with that hand, etc.)