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View Full Version : 215, did I miss a bet?


Fortitude
06-20-2005, 09:37 PM
No reads and we're 5 hands into the tournaments. Do i need to bet here?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t925)
Hero (t1000)
UTG+2 (t1000)
MP1 (t1000)
MP2 (t1040)
MP3 (t995)
CO (t970)
Button (t1100)
SB (t985)
BB (t985)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t45</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls t45, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t45, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (t157.50) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets t75</font>, Button folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t232.50

FieryJustice
06-20-2005, 09:41 PM
Always bet and then always fold...makes sense, huh?

curtains
06-20-2005, 09:44 PM
It's not the worst time to just check and fold.

Fortitude
06-20-2005, 09:48 PM
Not the worst but is it a good time to check and fold?

I think i've check and folded after raising pre flop 2-3x in my 500 of these 200+15's.

freemoney
06-20-2005, 09:50 PM
i check fold these

curtains
06-20-2005, 09:50 PM
Honestly I don't always do the same thing in these spots, but here I would usually lean towards checking and folding.

FieryJustice
06-20-2005, 09:50 PM
raise more preflop next time...that may help. You'd be suprised how many people will call a 75-100 raise preflop then fold to a flop bet.

curtains
06-20-2005, 09:51 PM
I don't mind the raise to 45. You aren't going to win every time you get called preflop, this is probably one of those times.

PapiChulo503
06-20-2005, 10:06 PM
I do not play the 215's but with KK wouldn't you want to bet a bit more pre-flop?

Once you have shown strength pre-flop from UTG why not fire another shot on the flop?

If hes only calling you from mp3 and not re-raising what could he possibly have?

AA-88
AK
AK's-A10's

What do you guys think about a check raise in this situation?

Check raise to appx 150

Like I said earlier, I dont play at this level. Betting then folding just seems really bad.

poindexter
06-20-2005, 10:08 PM
raise more then 3X the bb with KK on level 1. I like raising to around 60-75. This will eliminate the Axo hands for the most part. after the Ace hits, bet the flop and always fold to a turn bet or a flop reraise.

durron597
06-20-2005, 10:12 PM
Raise more PREFLOP

curtains
06-20-2005, 10:14 PM
Again for the record, I strongly disagree that it's correct to raise some super large amount preflop with KK. I don't think it's bad or anything but I see absolutely nothing wrong with raising to 45 like a normal person and I think it's just absurd to criticize a 3x BB raise here.

FieryJustice
06-20-2005, 10:28 PM
Call me crazy or bad or whatever you want, but I think raising only 45 here is where the hand went bad. I personally dont like seeing a flop with 2-4 other people because I only raised it to 45. I guess I am just thinking to the hand last night where i made it 60 with AA on the first hand and got 8 callers and then folded AA post flop. In my eyes, lots of callers is a bad thing.

Unarmed
06-20-2005, 10:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Again for the record, I strongly disagree that it's correct to raise some super large amount preflop with KK. I don't think it's bad or anything but I see absolutely nothing wrong with raising to 45 like a normal person and I think it's just absurd to criticize a 3x BB raise here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100%.
Anyone who plays the 109s and raises different amounts with AA/KK and AK please PM me your sn.

BTW I would fold this as well. Sure it's only 1/2 pot, but there's another person in the hand, and Villain doesn't know HE doesn't have an ace. It's either a decent ace or a couple clubs begging for a raise.

curtains
06-20-2005, 10:44 PM
Hey Fiery, I don't think that raising more with KK is a mistake or anything, I just dont think raising to 45 is either. Been playing with you a lot the past few days, you play good /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I feel like whenever I think you will move allin preflop, you do.

Fortitude
06-21-2005, 05:04 PM
I'd like to hear your rationale behind raising more preflop at level 1. Is it because of my hand, my position, or the odds I give the rest of the players by only putting in 4.5% of my stack here? I'm mostly concerned about the latter, giving the first guy to call me over 20-1 for my stack. Also, it's interesting to know if this changes once we hit level 2 where a 3x the BB raise puts 9% of your stack in cutting down on any callers implied odds quite a bit - do you have any problem with making it 3x the BB from EP at level 2?

DarrenX
06-21-2005, 05:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to hear your rationale behind raising more preflop at level 1. Is it because of my hand, my position, or the odds I give the rest of the players by only putting in 4.5% of my stack here? I'm mostly concerned about the latter, giving the first guy to call me over 20-1 for my stack. Also, it's interesting to know if this changes once we hit level 2 where a 3x the BB raise puts 9% of your stack in cutting down on any callers implied odds quite a bit - do you have any problem with making it 3x the BB from EP at level 2?

[/ QUOTE ]

On $215s If I'm raising I typically raise to 60 level 1 (add 1 BB more for each limper). Level 2 I move to 90-100. Level 3, 150-175. Used to make it 45 on level 1, but I think at the $215s many people will play more speculative hands for 3x but not 4x. I know I do. JMO. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Nick M
06-21-2005, 06:08 PM
one thing with raising more preflop, you now have to bet more on the flop to protect. In early rounds I kinda like not making the pots huge. If you say you basically always bet when you raise preflop, than raising more with kings is bad because if an Ace flops, you now need to bet more with a hand that is more than likely beat. I think raising more with Aces is a good idea though. You'll have no problem betting on 95% of the flops.
Just for the record I usually bet when I raise preflop. And since it is early I would bet this flop. But if it was 2nd or 3rd round I would probably check fold.
ohhhh and raising big preflop is sort of a tell in my book.