Readjusting to full ring

[kurosh]

I haven't played full ring in forever and it seems like I keep paying off people with ace high. How often do you call stuff like this down against an unknown?

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif. CO posts a blind of $30.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, CO (poster) calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

[toss]

Normally I'd check/fold the river giving CO credit for an 8, but the board doubled paired. I'd want to see a showdown here too.

[d10]

I'll fold this on the river.

[einbert]

I would probably fold the turn, but I definitely wouldn't fold the river.

I would call the turn frequently against an unknown, though.

[toss]

Are you folding the turn because villain will have trips too much to make calling profitable?

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you folding the turn because villain will have trips too much to make calling profitable?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because a call is just a little over breakeven if we're always drawing live, we're out of position and we stand to make the least and lose the most if we hit our hand.

If you're calling because it's likely that you have the best hand, that's fine. But your effective odds aren't very good.

[toss]

Ah I see. Thanks for clearing that up.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
Ah I see. Thanks for clearing that up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm definitely not sure it's correct, I'm going to think some more about how the river is going to play out against different hands the CO will have.

It's so hard to say against an unknown, but if people in this game generally don't fire the third barrel on a semibluff calling the turn and folding the river might be better.

No matter why I called the turn, I am calling _this_ river for sure because it could very well have just given us the best hand.

[kurosh]

[ QUOTE ]
It's so hard to say against an unknown, but if people in this game generally don't fire the third barrel on a semibluff calling the turn and folding the river might be better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know in 10/20 6-max people followed through on their bluffs relentlessly.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
I know in 10/20 6-max people followed through on their bluffs relentlessly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah that's true.

I think that against a total unknown, your line is probably best (calling the turn and calling any river except maybe a 9 or T). At least you'll have some information about how they will play some hand, though I think you'll see an 8 or some sort of pocket pair the vast majority of the time.

I don't really like the turn card since it puts a lot of straight draws ahead of our hand.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you folding the turn because villain will have trips too much to make calling profitable?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because a call is just a little over breakeven if we're always drawing live, we're out of position and we stand to make the least and lose the most if we hit our hand.

If you're calling because it's likely that you have the best hand, that's fine. But your effective odds aren't very good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think CO is facing the field with two with a 7. I think our overs are live and that we are ahead a reasonable % of the time. Assuming this is 2/4 or 3/6, if the board didn't pair on the river, i would c/f the river. At 20/40, i think i would c/c. Since the board did pair, there is no way i'm folding the river.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think CO is facing the field with two with a 7.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I agree, definitely. After thinking it over I think calling down is correct.

[Paxosmotic]

[ QUOTE ]
No matter why I called the turn, I am calling _this_ river for sure because it could very well have just given us the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am so completely lost in this sentence. If we were behind going in to the river, how is the board pairing going to help our hand? We were behind either to 8s and 7s, trip 7s, or various unlikely hands. We were ahead of Kx on down. How does this 5 change anything? What is it I'm missing on this board?

[chief444]

Kurosh,

I play this one the same. I think calling the turn is fine because occasionally you'll be good and won't even have to call a river bet. On top of that you likely have 6 clean outs so it's pretty marginal anyway.

The river call HU with two pair on the board, an A-kicker, &gt;9 BB pot,...sure.

When I played a couple of weeks 6-max and then went back to full though I had the same exact issue...calling down too much. But this one seems OK.

Chief

[Erik W]

If I am Villain I'd be more inclined to bet a hand like TJs that does not stand a chance in a showdown.

If I have A I'd check the hand down.
I'd call river if called turn but I probably lay turn down.
Expensive to call down from there. Against a LAG everything changes of course.