20+2 w/ JJ on button and several limpers early

[acIdREIGN462]

How do I avoid the following situation? When action gets to me there is 135 in the pot and I am hoping to just take it down w/ JJ. Looking back I think pushing preflop may be a better option. Even raising to 150 or 175 so I can bail on the flop is better. Any advice is appreciated.


NL Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee
Level:2 Blinds(15/30)

Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9

Seat 2: AWorldOfPain ( $1060 )
Seat 5: SplatManDew ( $1145 )
Seat 10: DPWMEC ( $1330 )
Seat 9: JackBlacksen ( $315 )
Seat 4: mover333 ( $470 )
Seat 7: tmirm0279 ( $1710 )
Seat 1: gr8vertical3 ( $690 )
Seat 8: coachniner9 ( $640 )
Seat 3: Anubis1 ( $640 )
Trny:13258624 Level:2

Dealt to AWorldOfPain [ Jh Jc ]
SplatManDew calls [30].
tmirm0279 folds.
coachniner9 calls [30].
JackBlacksen calls [30].
DPWMEC folds.
gr8vertical3 folds.
AWorldOfPain raises [250].
Anubis1 folds.
mover333 folds.
SplatManDew folds.
coachniner9 calls [220].
JackBlacksen folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8s, Ac, 3d ]
coachniner9 checks.
AWorldOfPain bets [605].
coachniner9 is all-In [390]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3h ]
** Dealing River ** [ 6h ]
AWorldOfPain shows [ Jh, Jc ] two pairs, jacks and threes.
coachniner9 shows [ As, Jd ] two pairs, aces and threes.


Thanks
AcidReign

[Vetstadium]

I just call here too early in a tourn and at the $22 level too many maniacs call your raise no matter what it is. I just look for the set or all unders and play accordingly.

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
I just call here too early in a tourn and at the $22 level too many maniacs call your raise no matter what it is. I just look for the set or all unders and play accordingly.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, there is no reason to risk all your or even ~t600 for t135 chips. too much risk

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Even raising to 150 or 175 so I can bail on the flop is better.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's one option.

Against the shortstack, you aren't getting away from this with your big raise. Probably not even with a smaller raise. The problem with your flop bet is that you don't need a bet that big to get Kx/Qx/KQ to fold. 1/3 pot should do it, but the problem is that these stacks are so shallow you probably have to call anyway.

Another option is to just limp behind preflop and play for set/overpair only value. I think both of those options are valid.

[Slim Pickens]

You can avoid the situation of having to play postflop by push preflop. You can also avoid it by limping preflop. I prefer a smaller, value-type raise in that position such that you get the correct number of callers to draw to an undercard flop. Dodging overcards early in a 22 is hard because the jerks who play KQ (or AJ for that matter) to a 90-chip raise fom EP haven't busted yet.

Pushing that flop makes baby Jesus cry. There are no flush or straight draws that could call you. There is a very playable overcard on the board, and you're likely to be called by someone if they have it. You've gotten outflopped. Deal with it. Check behind and fold the turn.

SlimP

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
Level:2 Blinds(15/30) [ QUOTE ]
Dealt to AWorldOfPain [ Jh Jc ] [ QUOTE ]
AWorldOfPain raises [250].


[/ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[acIdREIGN462]

The flop push was a bit ridiculous looking back, but w/ the pot being signicantly larger than my bet (390, which is what he had left) I thought it wasnt so terrible as to make baby Jesus cry.

AcidReign

[acIdREIGN462]

Limping preflop it is from now on....thanks for the replies. I came back to win this tournament by the way despite my early donktastic play!


AcidReign

[Bigwig]

Your preflop raise was too large, and I don't like the flop push.

I hate, however, limping with JJ on the button with limpers in front of me. I am an advocate of playing JJ for set value from VERY early position early in tournaments. That's because I'm playing the hand out of position. JJ is way too strong a hand to just limp on the button. I definitely raise here.

[Vetstadium]

I only limp with lot of raisers because maybe my personal experiences of always seeing maniacs in front of me firing at pot or calling with all sorts of stuff.

[gildwulf]

[ QUOTE ]

Your preflop raise was too large, and I don't like the flop push.



[/ QUOTE ]

[acIdREIGN462]

Bigwig, how much would you bet here preflop? It seems that the raise must be at least 175. I am afraid of getting 4 callers and having a 5 way pot with "only" an overpair(obviously with any overs I would just fold). Of course, I will still move in on the underflop but am just not thrilled with the situation.

Am I being too scared about this situation if i get multiple callers? When I raise less in these situations, and an underflop comes I find that often enough some underpair that would fold for a bigger raise has hit a set or suited connectors have hit two pair or other random crap people call with has become a monster. I am probably too paranoid about this and i am sure someone will tell me so.

Also can someone tell me how often JJ ends up being an overpair to the flop?


AcidReign

[Slim Pickens]

Baby Jesus is a real p*ssy anyway, so don't worry about making him cry. I make the raise that gets me two callers so I have odds to hit an undercard flop. That's usually a raise to about 90. Given that flop, I check/fold. With a raise to 90, you don't feel obligated to chase your potential two-outer if you're beat just because you've created the proper pot odds by raising too much preflop.

SlimP

[Slim Pickens]

[ QUOTE ]
Also can someone tell me how often JJ ends up being an overpair to the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
(38/50)*(37/49)*(36/48)=43% I believe.

[Bigwig]

I'd slap about 150 out there. I don't want two callers, I want one.

I don't play the $20s anymore, but I used to. I doubt you're getting 4 or 5 callers at this level.

[Slim Pickens]

I want two callers because I don't want to have to make any hard (for me anyway) decisions postflop. Better players could probably play it differently for a bigger profit and lower variance.

SlimP

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Bigwig, how much would you bet here preflop? It seems that the raise must be at least 175. I am afraid of getting 4 callers and having a 5 way pot with "only" an overpair

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? I love getting four callers with an overpair. It makes me happy because one will have 88 on a 9 high board or something else ridiculous and put me on AK.

Anyway, make it 125. That's high enough so the first guy that has to call will frequently fold and start a cascade.

[tminus]

i think the preflop raise is a heavy handed...
i can understand wanting to drive out a few limpers with a big raise but its so early in the game that you dont know what they're liable to do.

worst case is a call with overcards on the flop which is what happened, people love limp calling Ax...

i wouldve raised 4 or 5 bets instead of 8...this way the pot bet would've cost you 300 instead of 600, i may have even probed instead on the flop