View Full Version : help with 109s...do I raise?
HollywoodDB
06-20-2005, 02:30 PM
No reads. Haven't been here to long, no one stands out.
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif. UTG+2 posts a blind of $0.5.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls
Flop: (12.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO folds, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls.
Should I have raised the flop?
Turn: (9.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero...?
I don't know if I should raise or call the turn.
Fantam
06-20-2005, 03:06 PM
Hmmm. I think that you should have raised the turn.
I suspect that MP3 has a big pocket pair and that MP2 might be on a straight draw. You have a good chance that your hand is best on the turn, but if so it is still vulnerable with 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif on board.
So I think that I would 3-bet the turn to try to fold out MP2, to leave me HU with MP3.
handsome
06-20-2005, 03:12 PM
Your title made me think you need help with $100+9 SNG's.. for future reference a ten is indicated by a T, i.e. T9s. Anyway, I would call on the turn and try to get MP2 to overcall. Then I raise a good river card (non-spade or 7/9/T/Q) but against some opponents or with a specific read I'm just gonna call down.
ajrenni
06-20-2005, 04:12 PM
My first thought was to raise the turn to protect your hand, but now that I think about what MP2 might have, I think a call is better.
If he has a spade, a 9, or KQ, he isn't going to fold to your raise.
If he has any other queen and no spade draw, you would rather keep him around. A 9 fills your boat while giving him a straight, and a Queen gives you a straight, while giving him 2-pair at best (unless he has QT). Ideally he would "get lucky" and give you some action, and with MP3 trapped between you and him, you could make a killing on the river.
_bustedflush_
06-20-2005, 04:20 PM
I would raise the turn and bet out a non spade on the river. Having said that, I would have folded rather than cold-callled preflop- -UTG+2 and BB were not givens to call.
@bsolute_luck
06-20-2005, 04:36 PM
this is a great hand.
i'm wondering if we should call the flop. i'll need help with the math. i know we're getting ~8:1 on our call. but i think we have ~2.5 outs and i think that may be generous. our 9s put 4 to a straight, 1 of our Ts put 3 flush, and our BDSD might not be worth a full 1.5 outs.
on the turn: i think i'd just call down. pot is big, but we don't know if we're ahead but we have a strong hand for a showdown. let MP2 contribute for us and go to the showdown. plus we have position if MP3 doesn't have a flush and checks the river for fear of it.
SoftcoreRevolt
06-20-2005, 04:45 PM
We have an Open Ended Straight Draw, not a Back Door Straight Draw.
HollywoodDB
06-20-2005, 04:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
and our BDSD might not be worth a full 1.5 outs.
[/ QUOTE ]
We are open ended...
Raise that turn for value.
keikiwai
06-20-2005, 05:10 PM
So if you know he has a spade, and you know he won't fold for a bet, why do you not raise the turn?
It's more reason to raise the turn. It's a value bet; you've likely got the best hand, you won't make a flush draw fold, but you can make them pay, and when they pay, it gets deposited into your account the over 75% of the time that a spade doesn't fall (assuming you pick up the pot if no spade falls, which is not necessarily quite true)...
droolie
06-20-2005, 05:29 PM
Raise the turn. Make MP2 pay the max for his draw or fold it if he has one (he probably does). Mp3 will pay you off no matter what at this point and he only has one hand that beats you right now (JJ).
HollywoodDB
06-20-2005, 05:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Raise that turn for value.
[/ QUOTE ]
What if he pops me back with a 3-bet after I raise the turn?
HollywoodDB
06-20-2005, 05:36 PM
What do you think of the Preflop CC?
monix
06-21-2005, 11:46 AM
Personally, I am folding this hand pre-flop.
handsome
06-21-2005, 04:17 PM
Horrible preflop cold-call. and I still like my advice best.
[ QUOTE ]
Raise the turn. Make MP2 pay the max for his draw or fold it if he has one (he probably does). Mp3 will pay you off no matter what at this point and he only has one hand that beats you right now (JJ).
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't forget about AK, AQ, A9, A8, A7, A6, KQ of spades.
[ QUOTE ]
Horrible preflop cold-call. and I still like my advice best.
[/ QUOTE ]
You'd have to pry this hand out of my cold, dead fingers preflop.
tewall
06-21-2005, 06:17 PM
fold pre-flop; at first I didn't like this, but on second thought it doesn't seem to bad. T9 suited on the button with 6 players seems to me to be comfortably worth 2 bets, so it would depend on the liklihood that you'd wind up in this situation, which depends on your table. That is, if you thought it was very likely you'd get 5 or 6 callers and the pot wouldn't be raised again, then the call doesn't seem bad.
raise on the flop; the pot is big, so if you can fold someone, that's great, plus you've got a ton of outs, plus you might have the best hand.
call on the turn; seems like WA/WB situation, and you get the overcall when you're ahead.
This is an interesting hand, 3 decisions to make. The flop seems to be a clear raise. The pre-flop and turn seem to be close decisions to me.
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