.50 / 1.00 6 Max Absolute Hero in SB raising with some questions.

[jacktoaking]

Well I think I goofed on my play but thought it was slightly right at the time. Villian in this hand is LAG and I put him on a little ace throughout the hand. Please abuse my play.

.50/1.00 6 max Absolute

Preflop:
In SB with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif . All fold to Villian in MP Calls. I raise:

Flop:
A /images/graemlins/spade.gif 10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif I bet, Villian calls.

Turn:
4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif At this point I am thinking checkraise time, I check, Villian checks behind...

River:
10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif Although tempted to bet out, I decide to checkraise here. I check, Villian bets, I raise, Villian calls.

Please let me know what you think of this play. I thought it was ok but I felt like I should have bet the turn instead and also bet the river. I missed my checkraise on the turn and felt like that 10 couldn't of helped the Villan on the river. Whether to try for the checkraise on the turn is one of my questions and also what is a better line on the river?
My sibling basically called me a doof for not betting the whole way but the reason I chose not to here is because that is what I generally do in these situations and had been at the table with Villian for about 30-45 mins.

[McGahee]

I would usually bet these myself, but I understand the reasoning behind your play, and I know the feeling all too well. Whenever I try this kind of stuff it seems I always whiff. It's really frustrating because the same villians who check behind when I have a hand are the same annoying sponges who bet when I need a free card. It makes me throw up in my mouth.

[Fantam]

I would have preferred the turn bet.

The 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif was unlikely to have helped MP, so a check was most likely going to result in giving him a free card to draw out on you.

I agree that the T on the river was also unlikely to help MP, and think that your c/r probably worked because he had something like a smaller A and you had shown weakness by checking the turn.

However, I would have preferred a river value bet, which did not risk giving a free showdown.

[benkath1]

So you won the same amount and gave the villain a free chance to hit his kicker. Don't try to be too tricky at .5/1, it's best to go ahead and bet.

[Bradyams]

Just value bet. Some LAGs will call with a lot of hands here, but they may not bet them.

[Quercus]

[ QUOTE ]
Villian in this hand is LAG and I put him on a little ace throughout the hand.

Turn:
4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif At this point I am thinking checkraise time, I check, Villian checks behind...


[/ QUOTE ]

Your read for a LAG limping in from MP is too narrow.

[irishpint]

just bet the turn, it would take a stupid villian to bet this turn i think. how you could go for the check raise on the river i dont know either. do you really not want money? he's going to call your bets- maybe raise so you can 3 bet! dont get fancy when you dont have to.

[PygmyHero]

I know everyone else in this thread has pretty much already given your your answer - bet the turn.

Whenever I go for a check raise in this sort of situation it seems to get checked through. I just don't think you need to do anything fancy here. Bet the turn, then bet again on the river.

Since you missed your cr on the turn I like the play of going for it on the river - this usually seems to work. But note that you get the same 2 BB in the pot with either method (betting both streets or cr the river). Obviously you'd rather not give the free card.

[ QUOTE ]

the reason I chose not to here is because that is what I generally do in these situations and had been at the table with Villian for about 30-45 mins.


[/ QUOTE ]

I understand this but the question is, do you have a good enough read on the villain to think he will bet the turn? And, maybe more importantly, does your read give him credit enough to be an observant player and NOTICE what you have done in the past? If you can't say yes to the latter then it really doesn't matter what you did in the past.

[McGahee]

IMO people are being too results-oriented in this thread. This turn play can be very effective against an aggressive player. Making this play vs. a LAG on an uncoordinated, rainbow board is the time to do it if you're ever going to. Of course if your read on villian is a calling station it's best to bet, but that apparantly was not the case.

The river is a must-bet however. He's going to check thru a lot of his small pairs and 3-bet trips. Also, if you bet it sort of looks like a bluff after your turn check so you will get called/raised by a wide range of hands.

[milesdyson]

Against most lags i bet the turn and attempt to check raise the river. that is if i choose to stray from simply betting every street.

they expect you to bet the turn with anything and then to give up on the river if you have nothing. then they bluff, or bet any pair, and they call your check raise with almost anything (including bluffs, to see your hand).

[McGahee]

Thanks Miles - I think I found a new addition to my playbook. Same villian in each of these hands. Whatcha think?


Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP (poster) calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: (5.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks.

River: (3.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 4.75 BB


Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (5 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

[milesdyson]

i like the second hand as long as you can expect him to bluff or bet any pair on the river (there are a lot of these players in shorthanded games).

[El Cuchara]

I might be way off base here.

I think in general that if you lead on the flop and you're only down to a few other players, they will generaly not bet out on the turn unless they improve. I read that once upon a time in these forums somewhere, and although it might not be true for every type of player everywhere, it seems to make sense.