Couple of really interesting 2/4 live hands

[johnc]

Hand#1
reads: BB - VERY loose, calls down with all kinds of horrible junk, only folds when obviously clobbered, will only raise with made hands. UTG, very loose PF raiser (A8o, A4s from early pos), MP1, loose pf, weak caller post flop. Rest of the table was your usual loose, passive types.

Hero on button with AA

Preflop: UTG raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls. (12.5SB)

Flop: A, 9, 6 rainbow

UTG checks, MP1 bets(?), Hero raises, BB cold calls, UTG folds, MP1 calls.(9BB)

Ok, at this point my concern was BB's cold call. I figure I'm way ahead at this point and the raising MP1 would've forced BB and UTG to fold, but the BB didn't budge.

Turn: Jack

MP1 checks, Hero bets, BB calls (with what???), MP1 folds (11BB)

River: 7

BB checks, Hero ???

Hand#2: low content, just for fun.......

Reads: Table was very loose, passive with a couple of confused rookies, one very loose aggressive raiser (on all streets) on button.

Hero is in BB with KJo

Preflop: UTG calls, 4 folds, MP4 calls, 2 folds, button calls, SB completes, Hero checks (5SB)

Flop: K, J, J (all black)

SB checks, Hero bets, 2 folds, button calls, SB calls (4BB).

Turn: 10 of diamonds

SB checks, Hero bets, button folds, SB calls (6BB)

Here's where it gets really weird:

River: Jack

SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls??!!??!! (8BB)

He obviously didn't show his hand but what in the world could he be thinking??

[brettbrettr]

Hand one seems an easy river bet to me.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand#1
reads: BB - VERY loose, calls down with all kinds of horrible junk, only folds when obviously clobbered, will only raise with made hands. UTG, very loose PF raiser (A8o, A4s from early pos), MP1, loose pf, weak caller post flop. Rest of the table was your usual loose, passive types.

Hero on button with AA

Preflop: UTG raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls. (12.5SB)

Flop: A, 9, 6 rainbow

UTG checks, MP1 bets(?), Hero raises, BB cold calls, UTG folds, MP1 calls.(9BB)

Ok, at this point my concern was BB's cold call. I figure I'm way ahead at this point and the raising MP1 would've forced BB and UTG to fold, but the BB didn't budge.

Turn: Jack

MP1 checks, Hero bets, BB calls (with what???), MP1 folds (11BB)

River: 7

BB checks, Hero ???


[/ QUOTE ]
Johnc,

This is a ridiculously easy bet. If you're asking seriously about this one and not jokingly then there must be an enormous amount of hands where you're missing out on river value bets. You should try posting some more that you're been checking behind on. For example, in this hand you're asking about whether you should bet top set against an opponent who "calls down with all kinds of horrible junk". Make you're hand TT and repost it in a couple of weeks and I'll bet you get a split response. Make it QQ or KK and it should be a concensus to bet. Just say it was a live game and there was one ace flipped up accidentally by the dealer before the flop and another flipped up by a player mucking after the deal...since you know there is only one ace left in the deck.

Chief

[johnc]

This is not a joke, I actually did river bet this one and perhaps my intentions were to see if other posters would see the texture of this hand and compare it the pot size and reads.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
perhaps my intentions were to see if other posters would see the texture of this hand and compare it the pot size and reads.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just to clarify, if you're intending to call a raise regardless a larger pot should make you more inclined to value bet the river in general because you'll get paid off more. I'm not sure how the pot size matters in this hand though and generally speaking against very loose opponents it doesn't really matter much at all.

[MrEngenic]

You have top set vs loose players. Unless he is very aggressive and will always bet the river when checked to so you can checkraise, this is the easiest river bet question I've ever seen on 2plus2.

[johnc]

Final outcome: BB called and turned over 85o for the rivered gutshot str8. Of course I was pissed and like every other poster the pretty set of aces kept me from looking any further than my own hand. My biggest mistake was going on tilt - why was this a mistake? Because, aside from the atrocious pf call her calls from that point forward were righteous. This wasn't a bad beat. Would I have played it different? Hell no. It just taught me that aggression is just another tool - somtimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
like every other poster the pretty set of aces kept me from looking any further than my own hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you trying to suggest that your opponent's actions indicate he held 85o?

[johnc]

Perhaps, but I was blind to the third str8 card falling and smugly bet the river "knowing" I held the best hand. Had I have not been such a stupid idiot (I ignored the 7 as a threat and didn't consider the odds available to draw to such a longshot) my value bet would have been in light of the possiblity I didn't hold the nuts negating the tilt factor. Contrast this to hand #2 when I did hold the nuts.

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps, but I was blind to the third str8 card falling and smugly bet the river "knowing" I held the best hand. Had I have not been such a stupid idiot (I ignored the 7 as a threat and didn't consider the odds available to draw to such a longshot) my value bet would have been in light of the possiblity I didn't hold the nuts negating the tilt factor. Contrast this to hand #2 when I did hold the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm betting this even if the board contains 4 to a straight with the opponent you described.

[chief444]

Worrying about a straight with this board as you seem to realize is silly. That you seem to imply that no one is even thinking about anything other than your hand here is slightly offensive after I and others took the time to give you serious replies meant to be helpful. That you posted this as a serious question when you knew damn well you should bet but wanted to show your bad beat story is forum clutter.

Good day.

[Chuckles1248]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps, but I was blind to the third str8 card falling and smugly bet the river "knowing" I held the best hand. Had I have not been such a stupid idiot (I ignored the 7 as a threat and didn't consider the odds available to draw to such a longshot) my value bet would have been in light of the possiblity I didn't hold the nuts negating the tilt factor. Contrast this to hand #2 when I did hold the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. Are you trying to argue that you shouldn't bet the river because some super loose calling station called your bets? So what if he sucked out on you this time, it's still one of the easiest value bets ever, as you already said he'll call down with all kinds of crap.

If you're even considering checking here, I think you need to reevaluate your river play.

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
Worrying about a straight with this board as you seem to realize is silly. That you seem to imply that no one is even thinking about anything other than your hand here is slightly offensive after I and others took the time to give you serious replies meant to be helpful. That you posted this as a serious question when you knew damn well you should bet but wanted to show your bad beat story is forum clutter.

Good day.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you're still upset about missing those two 12 inch putts /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

HAHA!! YOU SUCK AT GOLF!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif (oh wait...I lost)

Anyway, nh.

[johnc]

Please read my response a little more carefully - #1 it wasn't a bad beat and #2 "worrying" about the str8 wasn't my point which is: value bet your good hands but falling in love with your good hands to the point that you are oblivious to any possible hands out there that beat you, however remote, is foolish and sets one up for tilt which in my case f'ed up the rest of the session for me. "Worrying" about a longshot str8 has never an excuse for me to miss bets but don't get pissed like I did and screw up a loose, profitable situation because some fish sucked you out on the river. It's tilt prevention, not MUBS.

[brettbrettr]

Your problem isn't value betting with the non-nuts. Its tilt.

[nepenthe]

Move this crap to the rubber room please.