Raised for free card on the flop. Now i don't need it.

[restless]

I'm currently BW'ing on Pokerrewards and mostly playing .5/1 with the occasional 1/2. Boy these are true rock-gardens! This table is very tight & mostly weak-passive. I'd be gone if it wasn't for the bonus & ease of blindstealing :-)

(I'll have to make the HH from memory since I can't get the handhistory feature to work.)

Poker Rewards FL $0.5/$1.0 10-handed.

Hero is dealt A/images/graemlins/spade.gif7/images/graemlins/spade.gif in CO.
MP2 calls. Hero calls. 2 folds. BB raises. MP2 calls. Hero calls.

Flop (6.25 SB) : 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif
BB bets. MP2 folds. Hero raises. BB calls.

Turn (5 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif
BB checks. Hero ???

Free card raise on the flop OK?. How do I get paid now?

[aK13]

Check the turn and check behind the river to get the most money.

DO YOU SEE WHY?

[Dave G.]

I'd open fold it, saving myself some embaressment. He has pocket 3s and the river is going to be a 3. You don't want to get shown up infront of your mates.

[edfurlong]

I'm pretty bad at poker but when I'm closing the action on the turn with the nuts I tend to bet.

[minttea]

Well, it is obvious that you should bet here, but to answer your question of how do you get paid - you don't, and that's fine.

The pot odds were enough on the flop that you could make the free card play, assuming that you were pretty sure it was going to work, without having any implied odds on your flush draw. That is to say that if you knew when you made the move that he was going to fold to any spade, it was still a good play. If he has AK, AA, KK, or something and pays you off for 2bb, that's great. If he folds, that's still fine. If he has Q/images/graemlins/spade.gifQx and a spade comes on the river and you get 3-4bb, fantastic. Either way, you won when your free card play worked.

At least that's how I see it - but I feel good about my view of the math involved, because I'm a lot better at thinking about math than I am at playing poker. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[mosta]

just bet it. he has a hand or he doesn't. trying to be extra tricky or extra slow doesn't work often enough to be worth it.

[restless]

ok, something tells me that you guys think I should bet right? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I did bet and MP2 folded. That got me thinking that I might have let him see another card so he could bet the river or at least call a bet on the river. but then again, maybe not.

[minttea]

Well, if you had a super weak-tight read on this guy, I don't know enough about the game to tell you 100% that you couldn't have gotten a bet out of him on the river if you had checked behind, but if he really is weak tight, can't you imagine that he would only raise the top few hands, and he might be attached to one?

The more you narrow down his raise-from-BB selection, the more I see him calling the turn bet.

But if he does believe that you have the flush, the only hands I could see him holding here that could draw out on you are KK and JJ, since I can't see Q/images/graemlins/spade.gifT/images/graemlins/spade.gif checking this card or 66 or 33 raising from the BB.

Trying to not bet here takes quite a lot of rationalization, but trying to bet takes very little: you have the nuts. Might as well go with the easy choice.

[mosta]

the times you get a bet from him on the river don't make up for the times he was going to check raise you on the turn with a smaller flush or set.

[Dusty_Bottoms]

You don't raise for the sole purpose of getting a free card. Your second objective is to get money in the pot prior to hitting your flush when you have the bet odds* to do so. People usually slow down when three to a flush hit the board and you don't get as much money in the pot on later streets.

Now is the time to bet your nut hand. In LLHE, play straight forward, not tricky.

*Read Carson on "bet odds."

[UncleSalty]

[ QUOTE ]
*Read Carson on "bet odds."

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather read Miller, Sklansky, and Malmuth on "pot equity", but that's beside the point. This raise has very little value in terms of pot equity (or "bet odds" if you prefer). Hero has about 35% equity vs. 33% fair share on the flop, so a call is just as good as a raise here if all other things are equal.

Closing the action, the main benefit of this raise is purely to get a free card on the turn.

[@bsolute_luck]

now remember he did that and do the same thing with a pair of 3s /images/graemlins/laugh.gif