Thank you, Entity. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

DavidC

06-19-2005, 09:20 PM

Saying thanks to Entity for the advice on the river bet. If I'm raised, I'm folding (read dependent, I check-call a maniac, because they're likely to bet).

The flop and turn play I'm not so sure of. Again, disclaimer: I'm still working my way through the post-flop section of SSHE. This isn't necessarily Miller Approved (tm). /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Any comments appreciated.

SB is pretty tight passive preflop, so I'm guessing that to make this play he would have something like AQs, maybe KK.

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Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, 4 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, Hero caps, MP1 calls, SB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (17 SB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, SB raises, UTG folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (11.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls, SB folds.

River: (16.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets

milesdyson

06-19-2005, 09:21 PM

MP1 has a club and is calling or raising the river.

DavidC

06-19-2005, 09:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
MP1 has a club and is calling or raising the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you could be correct, but I've seen some pretty strange turn calls recently. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

benkath1

06-19-2005, 09:30 PM

I'd have a hard time not betting the river, but I'm not sure if that is the right play.

milesdyson

06-19-2005, 09:35 PM

this is just a guess, but i say he has JJ with the /images/graemlins/club.gif.

Redd

06-19-2005, 09:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
MP1 has a club and is calling or raising the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

So are you saying you wouldn't bet here? I thought this was standard clark's?

milesdyson

06-19-2005, 09:51 PM

it is clark's and i would bet, i'm just saying i expect to lose close to 100% of the time now that the fourth /images/graemlins/club.gif has dropped. still, bet-folding > check-calling. get value when you're ahead, lose none when you're behind (because you're showing down regardless).

TomBrooks

06-19-2005, 09:53 PM

I think I'd check/call that river. I don't what hand is going to call you that doesn't beat you. If you bet, you might get raised by a flush, and then you could probably fold, but I'd be afraid of maybe getting bluffed, so I'd like to see a showdown with AA overpair. If you checked though, you might induce a bluff, so I would call rather call and see the showdown for one bet.

Mathieu

06-19-2005, 10:08 PM

I guess this is an application of the concept(from TOP) that says to bet when you're likely behind, but still intend to call a bet, and your opponent will call with more hands than what he will bet with. This way the money also goes in when you're ahead.

So a bet/fold has to be better than check/calling. Unless hero is against an opponent who often bluff on the river.

toss

06-19-2005, 10:09 PM

In this spot you always bet the river out of position HU. Why? Most players will fold/call with non flushes and if you check you leave yourself in a really tough spot if they bet. They'll also usually check with hands that they'll call with if you bet. Only really really aggressive player will raise you without a flush and these are the ones you want to check/call against.

Mathieu

06-19-2005, 10:16 PM

For the flop:
How about reraising sb's raise? If mp1 has JJ or AK with a club, he will be hard pressed to call for 2 more. I don't want to sound result-oriented, but in this case it might have won you the pot if mp1 had JJc.

toss

06-19-2005, 10:17 PM

Yeah I'm wondering why no 3-bet.

TomBrooks

06-20-2005, 07:37 AM

SB raised the two suited flop and then bet out the third club turn after you capped the flop. I would have thought your turn raise was spewing, but SB folded. That seems pretty weird and amazing to me. I can't think of what kind of play that was.

After that turn action, river looks good for a bet/fold I guess. I hate to fold in such a large pot, but unless MP1 is a maniac or thinks your a maniac, I guess you can fold to a raise. I don't want to bet this river at all, but if you check, you might induce a worse hand to bet, so you would have to call anyway.

The advantage of betting out the river is that you might get a better hand to fold, but in this hand, MP1 doesn't look like he's going to fold. In this hand, maybe check/calling the river is better in case MP1 was sticking around with TP Queens. MP1 hasn't shown any aggression yet.

Edit: I only realized after I posted this I had answered this before. I had forgotten. I actually didn't read toss's reply to my first post until after I wrote this one, but it looks like this time I was thinking along the lines of what he said in his reply.